A friend has an lp12 with the following mods.
Remove, lid, arm, motor, plinth, subchassis, springs, all mounting hardware.
Place bearing in two layer nomex uni-carbon aerloam chassis. Mount chassis via three sprung oil filled dashpots arranged around centre of suspended mass, fit maglev disc to float subplatter. Machine lip off platter and machine balance rotating assembly. Add new low voltage motor with dual mono sinewave regen psu, add two layer aerolam armboard. Mount the whole thing in a sand and shot filled tubular steel stand. Fit naim Aro, fit a rebuilt prototype black troika, add a Patadise phonostage, enjoy.
Remove, lid, arm, motor, plinth, subchassis, springs, all mounting hardware.
Place bearing in two layer nomex uni-carbon aerloam chassis. Mount chassis via three sprung oil filled dashpots arranged around centre of suspended mass, fit maglev disc to float subplatter. Machine lip off platter and machine balance rotating assembly. Add new low voltage motor with dual mono sinewave regen psu, add two layer aerolam armboard. Mount the whole thing in a sand and shot filled tubular steel stand. Fit naim Aro, fit a rebuilt prototype black troika, add a Patadise phonostage, enjoy.
One could say it retains the best parts of the linn, in fact floated as a none contact bearing it's even better.
One could also say that all bearings are under load contact always, that's why they're called bearings.
Controlling where resonance goes via the sub platter stops it isolating in the actual bearing/platter, which I'm guessing floating it doesn't. Just my opinion though and as we all know totally subjective and enquiring, as I'm interested in the logic and always open to new ideas.
Controlling where resonance goes via the sub platter stops it isolating in the actual bearing/platter, which I'm guessing floating it doesn't. Just my opinion though and as we all know totally subjective and enquiring, as I'm interested in the logic and always open to new ideas.
Well, I never thought of that! What a great idea. I'll try that on the Mk 4 sub platter I reckon.
The Mk 3 I'm processing currently is a mod from my actual Mk1 Sub platter, just removing more weight and resetting the bearing housing. (See Pic)
That's a really interesting thread also thanks for pointing me to it.
I've just weighed the Mk 3 with the bearing fitted and it comes in at 718gr, which for 10mm alloy I think is pretty good. I'm also looking at taking more weight off the arm board as that's also 10mm solid alloy at the moment. I'm fairly limited in what I can do as I'm only using hand tools, but as I've already said appearance is the last of my worries, so if it takes holes to get weight off then I'm up for that.
So far cost is negligible and mainly just work hours, which I have plenty of being retired, I'd like to keep it like that. I have lots more alloy plate so can keep trying things till I get somewhere.
The Mk2 sub Platter works fine and the sound is very detailed, clear and expansive, but like most enthusiasts I think I can always improve it.
Thanks again for the idea, truly grateful for a new direction to go at.
The Mk 3 I'm processing currently is a mod from my actual Mk1 Sub platter, just removing more weight and resetting the bearing housing. (See Pic)
That's a really interesting thread also thanks for pointing me to it.
I've just weighed the Mk 3 with the bearing fitted and it comes in at 718gr, which for 10mm alloy I think is pretty good. I'm also looking at taking more weight off the arm board as that's also 10mm solid alloy at the moment. I'm fairly limited in what I can do as I'm only using hand tools, but as I've already said appearance is the last of my worries, so if it takes holes to get weight off then I'm up for that.
So far cost is negligible and mainly just work hours, which I have plenty of being retired, I'd like to keep it like that. I have lots more alloy plate so can keep trying things till I get somewhere.
The Mk2 sub Platter works fine and the sound is very detailed, clear and expansive, but like most enthusiasts I think I can always improve it.
Thanks again for the idea, truly grateful for a new direction to go at.
Attachments
Phonomod, we measured noise with and without the maglev and perfomed a wavelet power analysis. With the maglev noise was reduced by roughly 3db across the board, the noise reduction was more than 3db, at 33hz and below, and also around 250hz, so transmitted motor noise and rumble were both reduced significantly. Nowhere was the noise increased, right out to 20khz.
The difference was profound, a very obvious sense of a quieter background.
Given that we measured using a silent groove we concluded that the idea of losing the closed loop in terms of sinking noise in the arm itself just isn't a thing. If anything the arm is excited by the bearing and motor noise, so eliminating those is a greater effect. Different arms and mounting arrangements may well give other results, I wouldn't want to speculate.
It's certainly the quietest deck I've measured. Lp12, sme 10, 20, kuzma stabi, 1210, and a few others.
The difference was profound, a very obvious sense of a quieter background.
Given that we measured using a silent groove we concluded that the idea of losing the closed loop in terms of sinking noise in the arm itself just isn't a thing. If anything the arm is excited by the bearing and motor noise, so eliminating those is a greater effect. Different arms and mounting arrangements may well give other results, I wouldn't want to speculate.
It's certainly the quietest deck I've measured. Lp12, sme 10, 20, kuzma stabi, 1210, and a few others.
That sounds very cool indeed, especially using a silent groove to measure the noise.
I'm not speculating here (but without the scientific noise measuring instrumentation) and using only my hearing.
On my Mk2 Sub Platter (goes completely against solid mounting) I mounted my arm board using sorbothane between the fixings of the bolts through the arm board and washers on the underside to the sub platter, and also under the fixing of the arm collar to the arm board and washer bolts. That gives me a little adjustment for the arm board to be levelled as well.
Those simple to implement mods seem to stop anything that I can hear with my ears in silent grooves also, there doesn't seem to be any transmission of bearing noise, and it only cost me around £20 for a sheet of sorbothane. And yes I am looking at sorbothane under the spring mountings and if I can under the bearing mount as well although room is an issue here..
Believe me here, I'm not dissing anything anyone does or reports, I'm just interested in different options and opinions, especially ones that anyone can do without too many specialities being involved. Simple mods can and do work if you are using your ears, as it is your deck your listening to.
Mine is definitely very quiet, has a massive soundstage with lots of detail and clarity. This is what I want and if I can do mods that anyone with minimal skills can manage then that's a bonus for me, and others to try out cheaply.
I think Linn decks are fine and if you want to leave it like it is that's great, if you can do stuff cheaply and simply for a little money, all the better. If you can work hand tools to a decent standard to fashion sub platters, arm boards etc, even better. But you can definitely make them sound far better for little money outlay (and lots of work). The deck is a simple mechanically sprung system where tuning that particular part can make a real difference, especially when it comes to resonance control.
By the way, having fallen foul of just listening to my system for noise before, I no longer yearn for that, music is my first love, not my system it's just a way of playing vinyl well.
I hope I didn't offend you as I'm very sure your deck is pretty awesome and far better than mine.
And thanks for the input it's very interesting.
I'm not speculating here (but without the scientific noise measuring instrumentation) and using only my hearing.
On my Mk2 Sub Platter (goes completely against solid mounting) I mounted my arm board using sorbothane between the fixings of the bolts through the arm board and washers on the underside to the sub platter, and also under the fixing of the arm collar to the arm board and washer bolts. That gives me a little adjustment for the arm board to be levelled as well.
Those simple to implement mods seem to stop anything that I can hear with my ears in silent grooves also, there doesn't seem to be any transmission of bearing noise, and it only cost me around £20 for a sheet of sorbothane. And yes I am looking at sorbothane under the spring mountings and if I can under the bearing mount as well although room is an issue here..
Believe me here, I'm not dissing anything anyone does or reports, I'm just interested in different options and opinions, especially ones that anyone can do without too many specialities being involved. Simple mods can and do work if you are using your ears, as it is your deck your listening to.
Mine is definitely very quiet, has a massive soundstage with lots of detail and clarity. This is what I want and if I can do mods that anyone with minimal skills can manage then that's a bonus for me, and others to try out cheaply.
I think Linn decks are fine and if you want to leave it like it is that's great, if you can do stuff cheaply and simply for a little money, all the better. If you can work hand tools to a decent standard to fashion sub platters, arm boards etc, even better. But you can definitely make them sound far better for little money outlay (and lots of work). The deck is a simple mechanically sprung system where tuning that particular part can make a real difference, especially when it comes to resonance control.
By the way, having fallen foul of just listening to my system for noise before, I no longer yearn for that, music is my first love, not my system it's just a way of playing vinyl well.
I hope I didn't offend you as I'm very sure your deck is pretty awesome and far better than mine.
And thanks for the input it's very interesting.
Yeah sorry, I didn't realise the maglev can lift the bearing off it's contact surface so only the sides are in contact, no rumble obviously with that system. My misunderstanding and apology for that. Great idea but complicated to set up I bet.
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If Simon is talking about the 'Tranquility' - it doesn't lift the bearing completely off the thrust plate but lowers the weight pressing on the thrust plate by about 90%.
If Simon is talking about the 'Tranquility' - it doesn't lift the bearing completely off the thrust plate but lowers the weight pressing on the thrust plate by about 90%.
Just get a Karousel.
It cost me $1200 installed.
If you look at the quality of the machining, it blows my mind it was made in house in Scotland.
Noise level drops below my hearing. Seriously. No grunge at all. Notes are crystal clear. Completely dark background.
For once, Linn is selling something at a reasonable price that combines fantastic value and performance. You can play all you want with a DIY set up, but, but, I doubt you can better this.
The single best update to the LP12. And I'm not overstating this.
It cost me $1200 installed.
If you look at the quality of the machining, it blows my mind it was made in house in Scotland.
Noise level drops below my hearing. Seriously. No grunge at all. Notes are crystal clear. Completely dark background.
For once, Linn is selling something at a reasonable price that combines fantastic value and performance. You can play all you want with a DIY set up, but, but, I doubt you can better this.
The single best update to the LP12. And I'm not overstating this.
I don't know. The Karousel comes with quite a few parts and they are made to fit each other. I dare say I'd not mess with any of that.
Lowering the pressure on the bearing might actually have untoward consequences.
I'm not sure how that could have adverse effects, it should practically eliminate rumble with 90% of the mass removed from running on the bearing surface. Sideways movement is negligible as there's a whole lot of bearing with a film of whatever lubricant holding that in line.
I don't know about the Karousel main bearing, but when I changed from a white lined to a Cirkus I couldn't really tell the difference, both were pretty equal, in that neither really made any noise in the first place.
I'm hoping that's my sub chassis doing it's job.
I had the Cirkus for many years.
The Karousel is a real upgrade. You can tell the difference immediately.
The Karousel is a real upgrade. You can tell the difference immediately.
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It certainly might! 🙄
So might using it in the Southern hemisphere ... when it was designed in the Northern hemisphere!
So you actually have to try it out! I can't hear any negatives ... so it's staying on my 'SkeletaLinn'. 👍
It certainly might! 🙄
So might using it in the Southern hemisphere ... when it was designed in the Northern hemisphere!
So you actually have to try it out! I can't hear any negatives ... so it's staying on my 'SkeletaLinn'. 👍