cartridge no but with a linn ittok LVII arm
i want to replace the arm anyway.
there is a as212 ortofon arm on ebay right now which i`m watching.
thanks for all the advice.
seems steep in Canada (but Oracles are made here and are relatively cheap here)
The fact that a Rega arm is included and the PSU (I am assuming for a voltage conversion? or is it for the 240 VAC to 120 VAC and then to 24 VDC?). If so it is probably a decent enough deal. The Delphi can be upgraded to near current status (I think the Mk I can be taken to MkIII status.
In Canada these can go for about 25% less for the table with a competent arm (but not with a Oracle Prelude tonearm!).My friend had an Alexandria MkII in a high gloss piano finish and an ET2 tonearm and Koetsu Black-Gold cartridge, Sumo Athena pre-amp , Suno Polaris amp, and several speakers. This was my introduction to "audiophilia", Shortly thereafter I bought an Alex MkII with a Sumiko MMT and Grace F9E, what a combo!. I have since replaced the tonearm with an SME 309, and changed cartridges to the Grado Sig8 MCZ, which I like very much. (I should have kept the F9E and had it rebuilt).
Now here is a caveat: not everybody likes the Oracle sound. I do, but some don't. Think of it as a table with big, deep grunt. and then sort of imagine an American turntable (VPI or similar), and then a Linn LP 12 (original) or similar. Now think of a spot between the two (in terms of sound). Some suggest that American equipment is voiced to be quite "hi-fi"-ish, whilst the British sound is more of a PRAT (not PRaT!). The closest thing that I can suggest is that if you are familiar with the Roksan Xerxes MkI, then the old Delphi will sound something like it.
My lowly Alex MkII does have way more bass than the Xerxes MkI, but I suspect the Alex has a lot of colourations due to the plinth.One day I may liberate the old Alex from its plinth (well really the worst part of it, the plastic bottom plate), and remove the electronics to an exterior enclosure.
Back to the topic: is this a "good deal"? I think so, but see if you can do a search for completed sales on ePay.co.uk and see what other shave sold for. I'd also check local dealers if there is time to prior to the auction ending. Most everything can be upgraded , so if a motor is DOA, one can be had, and the electronics can be serviced, suspension renewed, etc. And most of this can could be done at home in the UK...
The new Delphi without a tonearm is something like $4k or about ￡2800-￡3000 in the UK without a tonearm.
The fact that a Rega arm is included and the PSU (I am assuming for a voltage conversion? or is it for the 240 VAC to 120 VAC and then to 24 VDC?). If so it is probably a decent enough deal. The Delphi can be upgraded to near current status (I think the Mk I can be taken to MkIII status.
In Canada these can go for about 25% less for the table with a competent arm (but not with a Oracle Prelude tonearm!).My friend had an Alexandria MkII in a high gloss piano finish and an ET2 tonearm and Koetsu Black-Gold cartridge, Sumo Athena pre-amp , Suno Polaris amp, and several speakers. This was my introduction to "audiophilia", Shortly thereafter I bought an Alex MkII with a Sumiko MMT and Grace F9E, what a combo!. I have since replaced the tonearm with an SME 309, and changed cartridges to the Grado Sig8 MCZ, which I like very much. (I should have kept the F9E and had it rebuilt).
Now here is a caveat: not everybody likes the Oracle sound. I do, but some don't. Think of it as a table with big, deep grunt. and then sort of imagine an American turntable (VPI or similar), and then a Linn LP 12 (original) or similar. Now think of a spot between the two (in terms of sound). Some suggest that American equipment is voiced to be quite "hi-fi"-ish, whilst the British sound is more of a PRAT (not PRaT!). The closest thing that I can suggest is that if you are familiar with the Roksan Xerxes MkI, then the old Delphi will sound something like it.
My lowly Alex MkII does have way more bass than the Xerxes MkI, but I suspect the Alex has a lot of colourations due to the plinth.One day I may liberate the old Alex from its plinth (well really the worst part of it, the plastic bottom plate), and remove the electronics to an exterior enclosure.
Back to the topic: is this a "good deal"? I think so, but see if you can do a search for completed sales on ePay.co.uk and see what other shave sold for. I'd also check local dealers if there is time to prior to the auction ending. Most everything can be upgraded , so if a motor is DOA, one can be had, and the electronics can be serviced, suspension renewed, etc. And most of this can could be done at home in the UK...
The new Delphi without a tonearm is something like $4k or about ￡2800-￡3000 in the UK without a tonearm.
Hello Nanook
What do you think from Dual 1219 or 1219 for DIY turntable. I spent hours on research and I ended up with these two type. Both has long arm, heavy platter 3.1Kg, both idler drive.
I sold my Yamaha 801BL of course I kept the arm ,soon I test it on my Elac.
The arm is Yamaha YA-9, very nice 9 1/2" arm.
Of course not a $$$$ arm but probably better than my old square aluminium pipe Elac with plastic head shell (similar like Dual but not same the head shell)
Other question I have a Signet TK9LCa it is worth to spend $300 for a new stylus?
Greetings gabor
What do you think from Dual 1219 or 1219 for DIY turntable. I spent hours on research and I ended up with these two type. Both has long arm, heavy platter 3.1Kg, both idler drive.
I sold my Yamaha 801BL of course I kept the arm ,soon I test it on my Elac.
The arm is Yamaha YA-9, very nice 9 1/2" arm.
Of course not a $$$$ arm but probably better than my old square aluminium pipe Elac with plastic head shell (similar like Dual but not same the head shell)
Other question I have a Signet TK9LCa it is worth to spend $300 for a new stylus?
Greetings gabor
Attachments
Dual 12XX tables...
gaborbela: I've done this to a Dual 1216 and a 1225, they seem very usable and certainly low enough in cost to allow one to experiment). The Yamaha arm certain looks the part. It may be much better than you imagine. Re-wiring the tonearm could make the world of difference.
gaborbela: I've done this to a Dual 1216 and a 1225, they seem very usable and certainly low enough in cost to allow one to experiment). The Yamaha arm certain looks the part. It may be much better than you imagine. Re-wiring the tonearm could make the world of difference.
Guys, I'm just another guy too. A little long-winded...
If it aint't broke, don't fix it. Many Oracles were sold here in Canada with the Rega arms as a low cost better arm than the absolutely horrible "Prelude" arm. Nobody that I know actually had a good experience with one. Oracle contracted with SME to provide the "Oracle 345" arm (which it still has in its lineup today). Headshell from a 3 series, bearings from a IV, and internal wiring from a V. Not sure what the current cost was, but this is a very worthy arm.
I've never even seen a Ortofon Jubilee, let alone hear one. I'd do some research to see if any reviewers had mounted one to a Rega RB300 or variants with good success. It wouldn't be my first choice based on the cost alone (if you already own a Jubilee, it would certainly be worthwhile to mount it and have a listen). I would strongly suggest that you perform some mods to the RB300 though. A better counterweight and internal wiring would be the most likely places with a RB300, it already has the "structural mod" that RB250 owners perform (where do you think they get the upgraded stub end from?). If handy, a re-wire is easily performed. I would not pay for an Incognito rewire, only because labour is expensive and so is the wiring. A DIY version can be done with reasonable quality RCA plugs (male), and good wire wrap wire (my fave is 32 gauge Kynar wire wrap wire, silver plated high purity copper). USD $10 should get you enough to wire up several tonearms. I also believe in single runs without a break to the phono stage. I usually cut 5 pcs. of 5' each (4 conductors from the cartridge and one for a ground). Add some sort of collar to allow VTA anjustment and you're set. If you don't like the RB300, there is a willing marketplace for used ones out there, but you would need to spend a fair amount to get something suitable. A Linn Akito II would be an alternative "minimum". After that, the sky is the limit.
Okay and now onto a budget distribution for an LP source based system. I never suggested (nor have tried to suggest) that a cost hierarchy be adopted. A quality hierarchy should be. As the late LJK Setright wrote some years ago in HiFi News and Record Reviews, it should be the quality, not the cost. And I sort of adhere to the Linn hierarchy idea: table, arm, cartridge. Or replace the turntable with "source" and carry on. LJK Setright's version takes into consideration "giant killers", those items that simply punch way beyond what their weight class might suggest. So here's an example that could completely screw up the Linn hierarchy, based on costs:
Adding this up results in a cost of only $1213! Okay, now I know some of you will groan about a Xerxes for only $150. Well I bought one and all it needed was a speed adjustment, tonearm and a cartridge. Or consider a complete table for less than the cost of the table and arm ($500) as a used table with a respectable arm. I purchased a Heybrook TT2 with a Alphason Xenon arm for $300 a few years ago. So if a turntable isn't required, that's as little as $613 for a "turntable ready" system.
I would still follow the quality hierarchy rather than the cost hierarchy if I were buying new. If a new P3/RB301/cartridge package ($1100) fights above its weight class I'd give it a go (or the RP1 and performance pack, about USD$675) I'd probably spend a similar amount on an integrated , but something with a phono stage (which must be considered part of the front end in my mind, so maybe $900 + phono stage or a Rega Mira 3 or similar that includes a phono stage for $1000). Similar amount for speakers if purchasing commercial products (but I'd contact planet10-hifi and get a quote for a pair they would construct for you), and add some money for at least a reasonable pair of speaker stands (or DIY) and some reasonable speaker cable. So maybe I'm just stating 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 in a long-winded sort of way. And you end up with a complete system for under $4k (which leaves a little for a digital source of some sort or a tuner...)
If putting together an analogue front end (less phono stage), I might suggest something like what Rega does with their RP3 ($1095): table and arm, $899 ($599 for the table and $300 for the arm), cartridge (if bought as part of a package,) $195. You do the math )I'm lazy)...
Thanks to those that have suggested I am a resource. I had to start someplace too, and that was prior to the thing called the Internet🙂. If I had it to do over again, I'm sure I would have started along a different path than I did (and not sold or given away so many tables that truly were/are excellent such as a Xerxes MkI, and a Heybrook TT2...)
If it aint't broke, don't fix it. Many Oracles were sold here in Canada with the Rega arms as a low cost better arm than the absolutely horrible "Prelude" arm. Nobody that I know actually had a good experience with one. Oracle contracted with SME to provide the "Oracle 345" arm (which it still has in its lineup today). Headshell from a 3 series, bearings from a IV, and internal wiring from a V. Not sure what the current cost was, but this is a very worthy arm.
I've never even seen a Ortofon Jubilee, let alone hear one. I'd do some research to see if any reviewers had mounted one to a Rega RB300 or variants with good success. It wouldn't be my first choice based on the cost alone (if you already own a Jubilee, it would certainly be worthwhile to mount it and have a listen). I would strongly suggest that you perform some mods to the RB300 though. A better counterweight and internal wiring would be the most likely places with a RB300, it already has the "structural mod" that RB250 owners perform (where do you think they get the upgraded stub end from?). If handy, a re-wire is easily performed. I would not pay for an Incognito rewire, only because labour is expensive and so is the wiring. A DIY version can be done with reasonable quality RCA plugs (male), and good wire wrap wire (my fave is 32 gauge Kynar wire wrap wire, silver plated high purity copper). USD $10 should get you enough to wire up several tonearms. I also believe in single runs without a break to the phono stage. I usually cut 5 pcs. of 5' each (4 conductors from the cartridge and one for a ground). Add some sort of collar to allow VTA anjustment and you're set. If you don't like the RB300, there is a willing marketplace for used ones out there, but you would need to spend a fair amount to get something suitable. A Linn Akito II would be an alternative "minimum". After that, the sky is the limit.
Okay and now onto a budget distribution for an LP source based system. I never suggested (nor have tried to suggest) that a cost hierarchy be adopted. A quality hierarchy should be. As the late LJK Setright wrote some years ago in HiFi News and Record Reviews, it should be the quality, not the cost. And I sort of adhere to the Linn hierarchy idea: table, arm, cartridge. Or replace the turntable with "source" and carry on. LJK Setright's version takes into consideration "giant killers", those items that simply punch way beyond what their weight class might suggest. So here's an example that could completely screw up the Linn hierarchy, based on costs:
- used Roksan Xerxes MkI, purchased on craigslist for CAD $150
- tonearm, say a stock Rega RB250 or similar, (USD $350 ?)
- DIY enclosures using planet10-hifi's modified Fostex or Mark Audio drivers, $100
- one pair of the planet10-hifi CHR70eN drivers, $170
- some internal wiring and binding posts, $40
- Nuforce Icon(original) integrated amp/headphone amp/dac( USD $240 ), 41Hz.com amp6Basic (USD$60 IIRC, landed in North America) and some sort of linestage (could be done for as little as USD $50 if passive and DIY) or the excellent Virtue Audio One.2 (USD $349), or Virtue Audio Sensation M451 ($799). All of these require a phono stage so how about a Hagerman kit for USD $149 (built, not a kit, or as little as $50 for kit and parts)
- a cartridge: I like Grados, so say $150 for some sort of Grado
Adding this up results in a cost of only $1213! Okay, now I know some of you will groan about a Xerxes for only $150. Well I bought one and all it needed was a speed adjustment, tonearm and a cartridge. Or consider a complete table for less than the cost of the table and arm ($500) as a used table with a respectable arm. I purchased a Heybrook TT2 with a Alphason Xenon arm for $300 a few years ago. So if a turntable isn't required, that's as little as $613 for a "turntable ready" system.
I would still follow the quality hierarchy rather than the cost hierarchy if I were buying new. If a new P3/RB301/cartridge package ($1100) fights above its weight class I'd give it a go (or the RP1 and performance pack, about USD$675) I'd probably spend a similar amount on an integrated , but something with a phono stage (which must be considered part of the front end in my mind, so maybe $900 + phono stage or a Rega Mira 3 or similar that includes a phono stage for $1000). Similar amount for speakers if purchasing commercial products (but I'd contact planet10-hifi and get a quote for a pair they would construct for you), and add some money for at least a reasonable pair of speaker stands (or DIY) and some reasonable speaker cable. So maybe I'm just stating 1/3, 1/3, 1/3 in a long-winded sort of way. And you end up with a complete system for under $4k (which leaves a little for a digital source of some sort or a tuner...)
If putting together an analogue front end (less phono stage), I might suggest something like what Rega does with their RP3 ($1095): table and arm, $899 ($599 for the table and $300 for the arm), cartridge (if bought as part of a package,) $195. You do the math )I'm lazy)...
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The first structural mod to the RB250 that I can remember was carried out by Origin Live and did not use a stainless stub a la RB300. The new OL stub was held in by a long bolt with a fixing on the end which opened up like a rawl bolt inside the tube. It was reckoned to be very effective and superior to simply screwing in a stainless stub.
i went for a lenco l75 as suggested by some and subscribed to the lencoheaven forum.
a few nice and fun upgrades can be done and 1 of them is cutting a slate for use as a plinth ala oma.
Oswaldsmillaudio - Plinth
the oma is a "bit" too expensive for me so😎 i will get myself an old billiard table with a 7cm thick slate and have it cut with a watercutter to my needs, a gravestoneguy can then polish the slate to give it a nice finish.
i am bidding on 3 as212 arms now and have been outbid on 2 of them 200+ euro so my hopes are on the 3rd.
the other upgrade for the lenco is the ptp4 topplate which i ordered even before i got my lenco😀.
can`t wait to be spinning vinyl again after far too many years.
a few nice and fun upgrades can be done and 1 of them is cutting a slate for use as a plinth ala oma.
Oswaldsmillaudio - Plinth
the oma is a "bit" too expensive for me so😎 i will get myself an old billiard table with a 7cm thick slate and have it cut with a watercutter to my needs, a gravestoneguy can then polish the slate to give it a nice finish.
i am bidding on 3 as212 arms now and have been outbid on 2 of them 200+ euro so my hopes are on the 3rd.
the other upgrade for the lenco is the ptp4 topplate which i ordered even before i got my lenco😀.
can`t wait to be spinning vinyl again after far too many years.
Of costs and Lencos...
I agree with your choice completely if it is within you "audio means". Not everybody has the apparent budget you do. It is still much lower in cost than the BIG Garrards and Thorens tables. You may end up having less than the cost of a wrecked or thrashed Garrard or Thorens invested in your Lenco, but the result should trounce pretty much any turntable it can be compared to. I hope your restoration brings you nothing but absolute bliss once completed. I'm, a little jealous 🙁
The Lencos are reportedly excellent. I've been looking for one for some time now, Prices have crept up to what I consider to be too high (at least in North America), unless you find one at a garage sale or a goodwill store.
Yes the Lencos reportedly respond well to the typical "heavy plinth" designs as do the "BIG" idlers (Garrard 301,401 and the Thorens TD124). Some suggest that slate is too much of a good thing for the Lencos and suggest alternative compositions and constructions (for example Jean Nantais prefers other methods for the Lencos). Others claim extraordinary results.
Using billiard table slate is about the only way I can get slate here...cutting it via a water jet was the idea that I had when I thought I'd get some slate. Not sure of the finish, but polishing may not be required. Some folks use shoe polish (the paraffin wax based type) to give it a dark finish and to get it looking consistent. Maybe even just plain parafin wax would be suitable as well. Check with your local stone guy or try on a scrap piece of slate.
A great arm, but others exist too. If you heart is set on the AS212 arm, you 'll have to be patient. You might check out PHY loudspeakers (France). I think there was a very simple brass arm that could be duplicated for relatively low cost or go the Altmann micromachine site and look at his DIY turntable. His "joke' arm is their with a few examples of what others have built. If you end up with the Ortofon arm, or any other such as the PHY type, be careful what cartridge is mated to it. Consider the arm/cartridge as a system and seek known cartridges that have proven to work well with whatever arm you end up with (Don't forget about the SME 3012 either...).
Yes the PTP4 top plate looks to be "the one", if wanting to build a truly custom turntable. Not absolutely neccessary, but reportedly very good. Personally when you receive your Lenco and get it running (which is what you should do before anything else: disassemble, clean and lubricate everything, and ensure that the motor/drive system is working perfectly), consider the motor (rebuild if necessary), the main bearing (replace or re-machine as necessary) and the spindle shaft. Also look at the idler wheel and tapered motor spindle extension.
And this is the whole point.
I agree with your choice completely if it is within you "audio means". Not everybody has the apparent budget you do. It is still much lower in cost than the BIG Garrards and Thorens tables. You may end up having less than the cost of a wrecked or thrashed Garrard or Thorens invested in your Lenco, but the result should trounce pretty much any turntable it can be compared to. I hope your restoration brings you nothing but absolute bliss once completed. I'm, a little jealous 🙁
hi, the lenco works fine.
i received my ptp4 a few days ago and got the slate today.
i will attempt to cut and drill the slate myself as it would save me 150 euro.
the first as212 arm went for almost 400 euro and the 2nd one is a bit over 200 euro.
the third is on 95 and there i have placed a max bid of 227 euro though i might go over that in the last few secs of the bidding.
i got myself a needle sewing machine oil and ball bearing grease and some cleaning fluids for the spindle bearings and motor bearings.
i`m working on 3 projects at once and every time i find myself in need of something that prevents me to continue.
1 is the aikido preamp which will be ready this week i`m sure.
2 the lenco which won`t be ready this week i`m sure.
3 the aikido phono stage which won`t be ready either this week.
i don`t have a very large budget for the turntable but i am willing to spend about 1000 euro on the completed table.
spent so far,
100 euro lenco
40euro gas
30 euro slate
20 euro gas
198,50 ptp4
25/30 euro grease oil and tools for restoring the lenco
say 250 more on the arm and will use a temporary cartridge so i can save for something real nice.
plus 100 euro on tools (saws drills) needed for working on the slate.
plus 25 euro for silver wire and cinch plugs.
is approx 800 euro.
for this money i have an almost completed modified lenco, except for the cartridge of course.
I polished up slate with an angle grinder and diamond pads from ebay. Went from 50 grit to 4000 grit progressively, then some slate oil to finish. I also have a Lenco which I will do a slate plinth for but until my horns are built.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/168284-my-tt-build.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/analogue-source/168284-my-tt-build.html
looks very very nice your table, what arm is on there?
when you say progressively from 50 to 4000 how many steps are in between?
50-100-200-300 and so on?
or 50-500-1000-1500-2500?
when you say progressively from 50 to 4000 how many steps are in between?
50-100-200-300 and so on?
or 50-500-1000-1500-2500?
The arm is a fully modified Origin Live RB250.
Similar to these, if not the same
Diamond Polishing Pads 5 inch Wet/Dry 8 Piece Set & Backer Pad Granite Concrete | eBay
Similar to these, if not the same
Diamond Polishing Pads 5 inch Wet/Dry 8 Piece Set & Backer Pad Granite Concrete | eBay
For the price they are ok. Use lots of water and make sure you do each stage well, removing the previous wheels scratch marks.
Benz Micro Glider Phono Cartride (Missing Stylus!) | eBay
would this be worth anything or is it damaged beyond repair.
would this be worth anything or is it damaged beyond repair.
nice turntable...
3GG,
Did I miss seeing what you started with as a stock turntable? Regardless there is enough change to call it a custom turntable or new construction, as the motor controller, plinth, platter and bearing were changed out.
And did you ever try the rim drive?
Beautiful as it may be (and it is), this is not a restoration (I did look at your TT thread). The motor controller (I am assuming AC) certainly appears excellent. Could a circuit diagram be provided?
I am sure you must love the way it sounds. All of the basics are there to ensure that. Now I would love to see your Lenco resto-mod.
3GG,
Did I miss seeing what you started with as a stock turntable? Regardless there is enough change to call it a custom turntable or new construction, as the motor controller, plinth, platter and bearing were changed out.
And did you ever try the rim drive?
Beautiful as it may be (and it is), this is not a restoration (I did look at your TT thread). The motor controller (I am assuming AC) certainly appears excellent. Could a circuit diagram be provided?
I am sure you must love the way it sounds. All of the basics are there to ensure that. Now I would love to see your Lenco resto-mod.
Started with a sheet of paper and a rough square of slate🙂 Didn't get to try Rim drive, all my gear is sadly packed away 🙁
When I unpack/move/start new life I will dig up circuit diagram for AC sync motor control and add to my build thread.
I was just posting details of the slate work for the OP, back on topic, sorry for the hijack.
When I unpack/move/start new life I will dig up circuit diagram for AC sync motor control and add to my build thread.
I was just posting details of the slate work for the OP, back on topic, sorry for the hijack.
Hello
I just purchased 2PC 6mm over all diameter 0.4mm wall thickness titanium tube.
Do you think I can use them for DIY tonearm?
I think with carbon head shell like these I can use them.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/390381894663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
I have at hand a carbon head shell similar like that but 9mm. I think for that I'll buy some carbon pipe. I want the wires to be connected direct from the cartridge to the RCA connectors.
For suspension may be I'll use some Dual tonearm suspension.
Good for those who live in Europe they can get a Lenco for fair price. I just missed one at last week L78 for $125.
Oh my, oh my... I see mostly they ask $400 or so for one..
Greetings
Greetings
I just purchased 2PC 6mm over all diameter 0.4mm wall thickness titanium tube.
Do you think I can use them for DIY tonearm?
I think with carbon head shell like these I can use them.
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/390381894663?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1438.l2649
I have at hand a carbon head shell similar like that but 9mm. I think for that I'll buy some carbon pipe. I want the wires to be connected direct from the cartridge to the RCA connectors.
For suspension may be I'll use some Dual tonearm suspension.
Good for those who live in Europe they can get a Lenco for fair price. I just missed one at last week L78 for $125.
Oh my, oh my... I see mostly they ask $400 or so for one..
Greetings
Greetings
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