Often stiffer, which is the goal, also brings higher density. It is not somethign to seat about but it is not an asset in itself.
Starnded/fissilized bamboo plywood for instance is VERY stiff, and with that comes high density, makes them very heavy and (a bonus) a surface that is very hard to dent/mar.
dave
Hey everybody --
I have a question about building the Classic Golden Ratio dPlu-Ken11 (thanks Planet10, the design looks great).
Link to the design page: http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/CGR-dPlu-Ken11-0v82-plan-300716.pdf
My question is about the venting. I just wanted to make sure whether this design has the typical "center spacer" in the vent array along the bottom edge, like other MiniFonken designs do?
And if so, is the center spacer the same dimensions (HxW) as the two vents alongside it, and does it go all the way back until it contacts the rear wall?
I've attached a screen shot to help clarify the question(s).
Thanks in advance for your help & suggestions.
Oh, also -- is it OK to build this with high quality 1/2 inch Baltic ply? Is that hefty enough?
Bill
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Screen shot link: Dropbox - Classic_GR_Pluvia_11_Vent.jpg - Simplify your life
I have a question about building the Classic Golden Ratio dPlu-Ken11 (thanks Planet10, the design looks great).
Link to the design page: http://frugal-phile.com/boxlib/P10free/CGR-dPlu-Ken11-0v82-plan-300716.pdf
My question is about the venting. I just wanted to make sure whether this design has the typical "center spacer" in the vent array along the bottom edge, like other MiniFonken designs do?
And if so, is the center spacer the same dimensions (HxW) as the two vents alongside it, and does it go all the way back until it contacts the rear wall?
I've attached a screen shot to help clarify the question(s).
Thanks in advance for your help & suggestions.
Oh, also -- is it OK to build this with high quality 1/2 inch Baltic ply? Is that hefty enough?
Bill
----
Screen shot link: Dropbox - Classic_GR_Pluvia_11_Vent.jpg - Simplify your life
If you really want to build the cabinets with birch ply and can't find the right material ....In India there is an option to choose CNC cut birch ply cabinet pieces from Audiofy.in. They take orders for customised cabinets even front baffle only and you get to choose material and finish if you want to.
Speaking of the FHXL, I've been wondering about something lately. Those speakers sound really good to me. They are driven by an Emotiva 50wpc amp, which seems fine, but certainly not high end. I tried them with 2 x Amp Camp Amp and the sound was comparable to the Emotiva IMHO. I guess that is more of a compliment to the Emotiva than vice versa.
Anyway, I'm wondering how good are these speakers actually? They are in a different room, which could be part of the reason they sound good. My rooms suck generally. I recently got some LXminis and I think they sound better (they should!) but not by much.
So my question is, (and PLEASE don't say "whatever sounds better to you"), is it worth my effort to really try to get the most out of them? For example, messing with the stuffing is possible, but a huge PITA. I could get a flea watt amp or something (Decware?) and see if that makes a big difference. How about this A11ms? Worth the effort?
I'm hoping the answer is, "Look, they sound great now, right? Leave well enough alone. They might get a little better with a lot of effort and possibly money, but you would be focusing on the right side of the decimal point. You will probably get more bang for your buck and sweat by doing a different project"
This audio hobby is messing with my head a little. When I started, I just wanted to get a nice stereo that didn't cost too much. Now I'm all obsessed with whether this or that mod or upgrade or whatever will be an impovement, even if barely audible. Who cares? Somehow I've convinced myself that I do. Anybody know a good shrink?
Anyway, I'm wondering how good are these speakers actually? They are in a different room, which could be part of the reason they sound good. My rooms suck generally. I recently got some LXminis and I think they sound better (they should!) but not by much.
So my question is, (and PLEASE don't say "whatever sounds better to you"), is it worth my effort to really try to get the most out of them? For example, messing with the stuffing is possible, but a huge PITA. I could get a flea watt amp or something (Decware?) and see if that makes a big difference. How about this A11ms? Worth the effort?
I'm hoping the answer is, "Look, they sound great now, right? Leave well enough alone. They might get a little better with a lot of effort and possibly money, but you would be focusing on the right side of the decimal point. You will probably get more bang for your buck and sweat by doing a different project"
This audio hobby is messing with my head a little. When I started, I just wanted to get a nice stereo that didn't cost too much. Now I'm all obsessed with whether this or that mod or upgrade or whatever will be an impovement, even if barely audible. Who cares? Somehow I've convinced myself that I do. Anybody know a good shrink?
Having had a pair thru here i would buy (or build) something good.
But you already have, didn’t you say you have a pair of ACA? Do try them as a single amp, and pars in bridged & parallel modes. Bridged will have much the same output impedance as the Decware, and more suitable power. The changes you should hear will be much like adding or removing stuffing.
dave
But you already have, didn’t you say you have a pair of ACA? Do try them as a single amp, and pars in bridged & parallel modes. Bridged will have much the same output impedance as the Decware, and more suitable power. The changes you should hear will be much like adding or removing stuffing.
dave
alanhuth,
In my experience with the Alpair 10P and the metal cone Alpair 10.3 in the FHXL, I felt that the 10P has a softer top end and the mid-range is slightly more prominent vs the 10.3; whereas the 10.3 treble was more extended and sounded a bit brighter. No experience with the Alpair 11MS, but I would guess that it being a metal cone diver would be more similar to the Alpair 10.3 and maybe smaller Alpair 7.3. Which driver one will like largely depends on personal preference and choice of music. Both drivers went appreciably low in the FH-XL (within limits), specially for a modestly sized single wide-band unit. Both the drivers sounded good on tubes, Class D, and Class A, Class AB solid-state amplifiers; however each type of amplifier did bring some of its own characteristics to the table, specially the tubes.
In my experience the Alpair drivers mate nicely with single ended tube amps and sound enjoyable, but SE tube amps do have their limits; with tubes wide band drivers sound very nice with simpler genres of music like acoustic, vocals, jazz, and even some classic rock within moderate SPLs. Tube aficionados often talk about holographic sound-stage, great imaging, and sweet treble among attributes they like. However if you have a larger room and play more complex music at higher volume, then a more powerful amp and maybe a multi-way speaker system will be able to do better.
Also these modest sized wide-band drivers will not give you much "slam". For that you will need helper woofers in a WAW design (like the Halcyon and others).
Hope this helps.
In my experience with the Alpair 10P and the metal cone Alpair 10.3 in the FHXL, I felt that the 10P has a softer top end and the mid-range is slightly more prominent vs the 10.3; whereas the 10.3 treble was more extended and sounded a bit brighter. No experience with the Alpair 11MS, but I would guess that it being a metal cone diver would be more similar to the Alpair 10.3 and maybe smaller Alpair 7.3. Which driver one will like largely depends on personal preference and choice of music. Both drivers went appreciably low in the FH-XL (within limits), specially for a modestly sized single wide-band unit. Both the drivers sounded good on tubes, Class D, and Class A, Class AB solid-state amplifiers; however each type of amplifier did bring some of its own characteristics to the table, specially the tubes.
In my experience the Alpair drivers mate nicely with single ended tube amps and sound enjoyable, but SE tube amps do have their limits; with tubes wide band drivers sound very nice with simpler genres of music like acoustic, vocals, jazz, and even some classic rock within moderate SPLs. Tube aficionados often talk about holographic sound-stage, great imaging, and sweet treble among attributes they like. However if you have a larger room and play more complex music at higher volume, then a more powerful amp and maybe a multi-way speaker system will be able to do better.
Also these modest sized wide-band drivers will not give you much "slam". For that you will need helper woofers in a WAW design (like the Halcyon and others).
Hope this helps.
You said it yourself. It has become an obsession. A high majority of audiophiles suffer from this issue including me at times.
As a matter of fact you can never have the perfect system even with all the money in the world. Each system is a compromise. what we should do is choose the right compromise for ourselves.
My case im in the plan to build a fhxl for which i know the compromise would be power and bass for movies. But i accept that compromise because i give higher priority to music.
I started my upgrade thought from just modifying my 3 way with better drivers to modifying drivers and crossover to building a completely new cabinet to super pensils with alpair to fhxl with 11ms. Along the way i learned alot of things about speakers.
And about getting bitten by the upgrade bug. If you have a music system which you are satisfied with, then listen to it as long as possible.. Eventually you will realize the shortcomings and you will get a valid reason why to upgrade. Only then try upgrading. And get yourselves invlolved in the upgrade. Try reading extensively about each components of the system you are planning to upgrade. By doing this you not only learn alot of technical knowledge but also makes you more confident about the final product and you wont get bitten by the upgrade bug any soon because you know exactly what's in the system and how good each components perform. When you compare it to mass marketed stuff you will see that your diy outperform most of it even at higher price range.
I would define the upgrade bug as "doubtful about the performance of your system while not having any perceivable performance issues"
So be wise with your money.
I am so sorry to hear about your mental condition. As berlyassocial said – you have been bitten by the bug and now it’s probably an obsession. You are not the only one on this forum suffering from this terrible condition. But the good news is – there are worse bugs in the world and there is a cure! The solution is not a shrink. The cure is to use the shrink money and spend it on more diy projects. If anything, it is normally the wife that needs the shrink to understand and have sympathy for the husband’s condition.
Not a fair comparison. If I am correct, the LX mini has 3 drivers (sub included) and lots of dsp. The FHXL is a single driver pure full range speaker. Wonder how they will sound with the help of dsp?
Yes, I think so. From my experience any speaker responds well to an improvement in the audio chain upstream. I think the FHXL with Alpair drivers will respond even more so because of the Alpair’s ability to reproduce detail.
The FHXL’s with Alpair 10.3’s drivers driven with my (single) ACA amp were the nicest sounding speakers I have ever heard. But they sounded even better with a better preamp connected to the ACA. And then they sounded even more better when a better DAC was connected. So, upgrading your amp to something like an Aleph J or M2X might make your FHXL’s sound a little better. Same applies to upgrading your preamp, DAC, cables, etc. The options are endless. And fun.
I have a pair of Diatone clones, would they work in FrugelHorn XL?
Speakers are well runned-in. I measured TS with Dayton DATS, and parameters are different from published. My results are:
Re 6.5--6.5
Fs 61.9--64.6
Qts 0.869--0.951
Qes 1.05--1.16
Qms 5.038--5.265
Le 0.153--0.151
M 7.034--7.125
Vas 23.24--21.07
Thanks in advance
Speakers are well runned-in. I measured TS with Dayton DATS, and parameters are different from published. My results are:
Re 6.5--6.5
Fs 61.9--64.6
Qts 0.869--0.951
Qes 1.05--1.16
Qms 5.038--5.265
Le 0.153--0.151
M 7.034--7.125
Vas 23.24--21.07
Thanks in advance
So when funds permit, a replacement is on the cards.Thanks Dave & Scott. Numbers from factory are:
Fs 49.3
Qms 8.69
Qes 0.57
Qts 0.47
Re 6.5
Vas 48.5 L
You can see it in the response graphic, too. Pretty different from DATS, maybe mine is wrong? Or I made some mistake using it?
I've built several FrugelHorns (3 and Lite), and I'm very happy with all them. I would like to have an XL too, and need some pretext
Fs 49.3
Qms 8.69
Qes 0.57
Qts 0.47
Re 6.5
Vas 48.5 L
You can see it in the response graphic, too. Pretty different from DATS, maybe mine is wrong? Or I made some mistake using it?
I've built several FrugelHorns (3 and Lite), and I'm very happy with all them. I would like to have an XL too, and need some pretext