Those mosfets don't look like legit Excicon's,take a look at Exicon's website and see for yourself.Those look like To3p package which Exicon doesn't sell.Exicon's also don't have a "R" designation.I see some sold by a person named "Polida" on Ebay that look like yours,fakes.
Those are Renesas 2SK1058 & 2SJ162. Probably fakes, but they looks well and works grate. At least measurements are pretty close to my LTSpice sim on Cordell Models.
Anyway those are for test. I've have Exicon's for final instalation.
Anyway those are for test. I've have Exicon's for final instalation.
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@onemorecap, I'm confused about your comment on why you think the Renesas are fakes because visually they look like the real ones and if they measure 'pretty close' then why would they be fake and how would you know if you had real ones?
If you get the chance to listen to both versions with Exicon and Renesas (fake or not), please let us know if you have a preference and if there is any difference because I have Renesas in mine right now but have a tube of each N & P from Profusion as well.
Indeed they are nice looking boards and thanks for not showing the value of the Dale resistors (intentional or not).
If you get the chance to listen to both versions with Exicon and Renesas (fake or not), please let us know if you have a preference and if there is any difference because I have Renesas in mine right now but have a tube of each N & P from Profusion as well.
Indeed they are nice looking boards and thanks for not showing the value of the Dale resistors (intentional or not).
It would be hard to fake their unique vgs threshold hold values.
A cheap component tester would help with determining that, or setup a circuit to measure Vgs at 2.5mA
A cheap component tester would help with determining that, or setup a circuit to measure Vgs at 2.5mA
Renesas stopped manufacturing these a decade ago. The originals had batch and lot numbers marked on all three of the seals. As you can see only one seal is marked. The devices are freely available again, which means either factory reject pieces are being recycled into active distribution, or someone has purchased the assets and is continuing manufacture.
I have 20 pairs of these newer lots (with only one marked seal) with me, am plannign to put it on the rig soon. I have 3pair boards on standby for a "T" version of my derivative, and we'll see if these are any good. In single pair configuration they should present few issues.
I have 20 pairs of these newer lots (with only one marked seal) with me, am plannign to put it on the rig soon. I have 3pair boards on standby for a "T" version of my derivative, and we'll see if these are any good. In single pair configuration they should present few issues.
I don't dispute that they do seem to be available from several sources but I found this image on Ebay that shows (at least an image) of a pair with all 3 seals marked
Ebay Renesas Laterals
I took some pictures of my own devices and ran them through a component tester and have them in a running amp (sounds great too!). The J162 only has 1 seal marked - the one with the appropriate 'MALAYSIA' marking while the K1058 has all 3 marked. I rubbed the lettering with alcohol and a cotton swab and there is no colour bleeding or residue at all.
I haven't done any VGS testing but do not feel any need to pursue further as I am happy with the way they are performing, at least for now.
J162:
K1058:
Ebay Renesas Laterals
I took some pictures of my own devices and ran them through a component tester and have them in a running amp (sounds great too!). The J162 only has 1 seal marked - the one with the appropriate 'MALAYSIA' marking while the K1058 has all 3 marked. I rubbed the lettering with alcohol and a cotton swab and there is no colour bleeding or residue at all.
I haven't done any VGS testing but do not feel any need to pursue further as I am happy with the way they are performing, at least for now.
J162:
K1058:
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Thanks. This boards manufactured by aisler.net in Germany, but they available for U.S. and world as well.
Yeah they looks like original. But ordered from China and there is no confidance that's original devices (and the marked seals are rubbed off with a finger, only the engraving remains). Maybe those are old batches, maybe new ones by original assets, maybe fakes. Who knows? 😉
Looking forward to compare it with new Exicons from Profusion.
Indeed they are nice looking boards and thanks for not showing the value of the Dale resistors (intentional or not).
Thanks! It was intentional 😛
Yes - I think it is pretty interesting to use the RTA module in REW and watch the effect on harmonics in real time as the pot is adjusted. You can move the 2H relative to the 3H up and down. I ended up with 3H 10db down from 2H, like the real thing 🙂
Guys are you really sure that these transistor are the ones which are used by Pass Labs?
Sorry the question, we opened up a few F7, and there were complete Other Transistors in there.. Talking about the output. I don't see in this thread that number anywhere.. either we had fake F7 or something is funny.. As I do not have authorization of Mr. Nelson Pass to write that number down here, so it would be interesting what is build in by Pass Labs..
These Mosfets, which I saw, in the F7 you can't buy anywhere, I have about 50 Pairs.. but never used them.. these are quite expensive.. If I remember right I bought one piece for 10 USD.. and this in a lot of 50 match Pairs.. Never build an F7.. Even it sounds great. i like regular BIPOLAR Transistors more, even it's more expensive on everything to build an Class A especially when it's a Single end.
Anyway I'm just curious. And I do not sell them as well.
Sorry the question, we opened up a few F7, and there were complete Other Transistors in there.. Talking about the output. I don't see in this thread that number anywhere.. either we had fake F7 or something is funny.. As I do not have authorization of Mr. Nelson Pass to write that number down here, so it would be interesting what is build in by Pass Labs..
These Mosfets, which I saw, in the F7 you can't buy anywhere, I have about 50 Pairs.. but never used them.. these are quite expensive.. If I remember right I bought one piece for 10 USD.. and this in a lot of 50 match Pairs.. Never build an F7.. Even it sounds great. i like regular BIPOLAR Transistors more, even it's more expensive on everything to build an Class A especially when it's a Single end.
Anyway I'm just curious. And I do not sell them as well.
@Dennis Hui
Yea that's right, is the same information I got..
BTW, There is a bigger one with more Voltage, more Current, more Watt Transistor from the same Manufacturer, and I'm also curious why the smaller one is used on the F7.
Someone told me that it's because of only the small one will fit, so that DC at output stays 0volts with meaning 0.000Volts even at high level and over-driven input..Also that heat does not make them run away so the guarantee is given that the speaker will not get any DC more than 20 millivolts even in the most extreme use of the amplifier.. And that the Big Brother of the used Transistor, does not being able to to do this in the same matter. also there I have about 25 or more pairs..
I'm for Bipolar, and I love the warmth of the sound, the heavy Punch when it's needed, and the soft highs the decent mids and clearness of Voice reproduction..
But MR Pass sure made the best decision there can be, because using Mosfets, he can get unsurpassed sound clarity and power, easier to achieve than with Bipolar.. also can use less components in the sound path, and one thing, as he uses match pairs, which are really matched, he cuts out a lot of other things as well, like Servo, to a big part negative feedback and is able to get fantastic Power output with less Power input if we compare the Rail voltages between Bipolar and Mosfet.
I still use a Pass Amp in my second home in Thailand North almost in the Jungle, and still sounds the same after 20 years of use..
The F7 is worth every Penny someone pays for it.. this just besides all the other things which makes it a superior Amplifier.. And it is for me still overwhelming with just a few resistors and 4 transistors per side to create and such extra good Amplifier.
If I would wear a hat, I would have to say " chapeau " and pull my hat, but I don't wear a hat, and still have to pull it.. Chapeau Mr. Pass..!
Yea that's right, is the same information I got..
BTW, There is a bigger one with more Voltage, more Current, more Watt Transistor from the same Manufacturer, and I'm also curious why the smaller one is used on the F7.
Someone told me that it's because of only the small one will fit, so that DC at output stays 0volts with meaning 0.000Volts even at high level and over-driven input..Also that heat does not make them run away so the guarantee is given that the speaker will not get any DC more than 20 millivolts even in the most extreme use of the amplifier.. And that the Big Brother of the used Transistor, does not being able to to do this in the same matter. also there I have about 25 or more pairs..
I'm for Bipolar, and I love the warmth of the sound, the heavy Punch when it's needed, and the soft highs the decent mids and clearness of Voice reproduction..
But MR Pass sure made the best decision there can be, because using Mosfets, he can get unsurpassed sound clarity and power, easier to achieve than with Bipolar.. also can use less components in the sound path, and one thing, as he uses match pairs, which are really matched, he cuts out a lot of other things as well, like Servo, to a big part negative feedback and is able to get fantastic Power output with less Power input if we compare the Rail voltages between Bipolar and Mosfet.
I still use a Pass Amp in my second home in Thailand North almost in the Jungle, and still sounds the same after 20 years of use..
The F7 is worth every Penny someone pays for it.. this just besides all the other things which makes it a superior Amplifier.. And it is for me still overwhelming with just a few resistors and 4 transistors per side to create and such extra good Amplifier.
If I would wear a hat, I would have to say " chapeau " and pull my hat, but I don't wear a hat, and still have to pull it.. Chapeau Mr. Pass..!
All these non-Hitachi/Renesas laterals come from one source, namely Semelab in the UK.
They have been sold over the years under different brand names; Profusion, Exicon, Alfet, Magnatec, ...
If you order enough, you can put your own logo on.
Semelab laterals are different in chracteristics to Renesas.
UTHAiM -- Just for Fun
Patrick
They have been sold over the years under different brand names; Profusion, Exicon, Alfet, Magnatec, ...
If you order enough, you can put your own logo on.
Semelab laterals are different in chracteristics to Renesas.
UTHAiM -- Just for Fun
Patrick
I used the SEMELAB ALF08P16V and ALF08N16V Lateral Mosfets,
unfortunately no longer available.
unfortunately no longer available.
Mosfet
How come that a Manufacturer just stops production of Transistor.
What's the reason? Or is it the so called English way? He guys just don't jump on me but this seems to happen several times already... just think about Resista, Dale Resistors, then also Transformers, Capacitors..Solder Lugs and more..
On EBAY they sell a pair or Piece 25 English pounds, Just checked. Oh I would make some money of them, but no I do not sell them.
ALF16N16W ALF16P16W is still available of some Online trading sites, at least they say that these were in Stock.. Original Semelab if ALFET is Original Semelab.
I remember 2 years ago I ordered each something like 60 Pairs or more of both, and then tested to make a Single end Class A.. the sound was fantastic, a big CRACK and then All fireworks of Swiss-national Day, New Years Night Fireworks and smoke signals appeared on top of my workbench, after applying power..I think I burned at least 20 - 30 P channels and also as much N channels..this then told me, stick to what is sure, and that's why I never used Mosfet again. The leftovers are in a Box. Just took a look at the box how much are left, but actually have no intention to sell them. Just have to recognize that the ALF08P16V are missing..
Here some pics.. just checked,, missing more than half.. and If I remember right, I used each time 4 pieces while testing.. and not only one time.. LOL
Mosfet, is definately not my transistor..The P channels might are in an other box.
Please do not PM / No Sale.. the most I would do is to give them free to Mr. NP.. as back up but I think he has more than I do..May someday I will get smarter that I'm I now, and know how to create a non burning CLASS A Single END with Mosfets..
Going to finish my BIPOLAR instead,, it's already done. Need to run the Cables, and some finish up and then this project has it's end.. Guys enjoy weekend,
How come that a Manufacturer just stops production of Transistor.
What's the reason? Or is it the so called English way? He guys just don't jump on me but this seems to happen several times already... just think about Resista, Dale Resistors, then also Transformers, Capacitors..Solder Lugs and more..
On EBAY they sell a pair or Piece 25 English pounds, Just checked. Oh I would make some money of them, but no I do not sell them.
ALF16N16W ALF16P16W is still available of some Online trading sites, at least they say that these were in Stock.. Original Semelab if ALFET is Original Semelab.
I remember 2 years ago I ordered each something like 60 Pairs or more of both, and then tested to make a Single end Class A.. the sound was fantastic, a big CRACK and then All fireworks of Swiss-national Day, New Years Night Fireworks and smoke signals appeared on top of my workbench, after applying power..I think I burned at least 20 - 30 P channels and also as much N channels..this then told me, stick to what is sure, and that's why I never used Mosfet again. The leftovers are in a Box. Just took a look at the box how much are left, but actually have no intention to sell them. Just have to recognize that the ALF08P16V are missing..
Here some pics.. just checked,, missing more than half.. and If I remember right, I used each time 4 pieces while testing.. and not only one time.. LOL
Mosfet, is definately not my transistor..The P channels might are in an other box.
Please do not PM / No Sale.. the most I would do is to give them free to Mr. NP.. as back up but I think he has more than I do..May someday I will get smarter that I'm I now, and know how to create a non burning CLASS A Single END with Mosfets..
Going to finish my BIPOLAR instead,, it's already done. Need to run the Cables, and some finish up and then this project has it's end.. Guys enjoy weekend,
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It don't work that easy
As far I know Mr. Pass uses only Cut Grades, call it MATCH PAIRS, and I saw sometimes ago his Fantastic Circuit how he testes them..you will find this schematic on Pass Labs- Elevate Your Experience if I'm remember right.
This is really important on the F7 same as the input FETs as well. In F7 a special Grade is used..
I know a guy who tried to build the F7, and he spent a lot of time and Money just to get the input working..
Then he sold them on Ebay.. shouldn't do that..
So if your ALF's are matched no problems, otherwise Smoke signals could appear.. and or you will not be able to become the output stable..
I have heard both of them the original and the Clone.. same material at least I thought so, but sound is not the same.. Original sound light-years better.
difference is, the clone uses a black front plate, BTW made in Thailand, but the guy stopped because he couldn't find any transistors anymore.. I know this because have lived close to his shop for ages..*20Years* Now he manufacturing CLASS D amps..I think also Clones..
Enjoy weekend
As far I know Mr. Pass uses only Cut Grades, call it MATCH PAIRS, and I saw sometimes ago his Fantastic Circuit how he testes them..you will find this schematic on Pass Labs- Elevate Your Experience if I'm remember right.
This is really important on the F7 same as the input FETs as well. In F7 a special Grade is used..
I know a guy who tried to build the F7, and he spent a lot of time and Money just to get the input working..
Then he sold them on Ebay.. shouldn't do that..
So if your ALF's are matched no problems, otherwise Smoke signals could appear.. and or you will not be able to become the output stable..
I have heard both of them the original and the Clone.. same material at least I thought so, but sound is not the same.. Original sound light-years better.
difference is, the clone uses a black front plate, BTW made in Thailand, but the guy stopped because he couldn't find any transistors anymore.. I know this because have lived close to his shop for ages..*20Years* Now he manufacturing CLASS D amps..I think also Clones..
Enjoy weekend