Thanks for your answers and help.
The answers were not what I hoped they would be. But I was prepared for them non the less.
My question was also just a small hope of mine to maybe catch a break if possible.
Yes, I could make it a learing experience for myself (and the community) but I would have to start at the bottom as I only have a basic knowlegde regarding speaker design, OB and filters, and no knowledge about measuring, and design by them or design by listening.
This would take a lot of time, energy and resources for me to do this, which at the moment at least I unfortunately do not have the luxury to delve into.
The answers were not what I hoped they would be. But I was prepared for them non the less.
My question was also just a small hope of mine to maybe catch a break if possible.
Yes, I could make it a learing experience for myself (and the community) but I would have to start at the bottom as I only have a basic knowlegde regarding speaker design, OB and filters, and no knowledge about measuring, and design by them or design by listening.
This would take a lot of time, energy and resources for me to do this, which at the moment at least I unfortunately do not have the luxury to delve into.
--
Wow, a landmark day for this thread. We have passed one million views!
Thanks to John Busch for this speaker design and all the folks who have come here to read, comment and build this simple and effective design. It was John who gave me the heads-up on the milestone, he will post later today.
This is one of the most viewed build threads on diyAudio. Thanks everyone.
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Hello all
Never thought the simple Manzanita concept would attract the interest it has for so long. Good to know it has found a home with many music lovers. I have been asked on several occations to estimate how many Manzanita and Manzanita Ultra's pairs have been built. No way of knowing of course, but given the longevity of this tread, private emails, comments from a couple of suppliers and so forth, there could easily be several hundred, or maybe over 1,000 built world wide. Heck, I've even built a few! And a surprising number of builders have built multiple pairs for family and friends.
As I have noted previously, I have been working on updated versions of the concept. However health and life have slowed my progress down. But still at it and hope to release some info in the near future.
Many thanks to all that placed their trust in the concept and continue to keep it alive and well! And many thanks again to Pano for assiting in so many ways! Lastly, many thanks to DIY Audio for making the process possible!! J
Never thought the simple Manzanita concept would attract the interest it has for so long. Good to know it has found a home with many music lovers. I have been asked on several occations to estimate how many Manzanita and Manzanita Ultra's pairs have been built. No way of knowing of course, but given the longevity of this tread, private emails, comments from a couple of suppliers and so forth, there could easily be several hundred, or maybe over 1,000 built world wide. Heck, I've even built a few! And a surprising number of builders have built multiple pairs for family and friends.
As I have noted previously, I have been working on updated versions of the concept. However health and life have slowed my progress down. But still at it and hope to release some info in the near future.
Many thanks to all that placed their trust in the concept and continue to keep it alive and well! And many thanks again to Pano for assiting in so many ways! Lastly, many thanks to DIY Audio for making the process possible!! J
Here is a rough Manzanita-style build with Alpair 7p and Peerless SLS-P830668 (10'')
I'm amazed at how well it turned out, A7p technical performance is excellent from treble down to high bass, the woofer provides clean and deep bass up to very high levels.
All with that super clean and natural OB sound.
It also plays very well in small rooms.
The Peerless 10'' was chosen instead of 12'' because it was cheaper+available, my power requirements weren't that high and it's response up top looked a bit smoother (more flexible for other projects).
For €50 they are really killer woofers.
I cheated with the XO, they are bi-amped with an 'active' XO (1st order passive before amps). Check schematics for XO values I settled at
The XO point was critical for the woofer, there was a very fine line between sounding thin/sucked out and honky
The a7p was much more flexible, attenuator can be fine tuned for brighter/warmer sound.
XO point worked well in the 200Hz to 300Hz range, depends on your preference for slightly more body vs clarity.
2 small but important things learned during the build:
-The A7p was badly effected if not tightly coupled to the baffle, the mids and highs became harsher and the driver lost some of its subtlety.
-While OBs are generally easier to build than boxes, the impact of the quality of the baffle is huge, maybe bigger than boxes.
Just to mention in case someone wants to build something similar, it is not exactly the same as a Manzanita baffle.
Baffle is 20mm MDF, 15x22''.
Wings are 20mm pine, 4'' deep and obviously tapered off below the a7p, later adding some bits of ply boards to try to stiffen it.
Not much of it is intentional, just working with what materials I had on hand.
This was mostly to serve as a test baffle but there is really very little wrong with it, so happy for the moment.
edit:HP resistor should be 7.75k
I'm amazed at how well it turned out, A7p technical performance is excellent from treble down to high bass, the woofer provides clean and deep bass up to very high levels.
All with that super clean and natural OB sound.
It also plays very well in small rooms.
The Peerless 10'' was chosen instead of 12'' because it was cheaper+available, my power requirements weren't that high and it's response up top looked a bit smoother (more flexible for other projects).
For €50 they are really killer woofers.
I cheated with the XO, they are bi-amped with an 'active' XO (1st order passive before amps). Check schematics for XO values I settled at
The XO point was critical for the woofer, there was a very fine line between sounding thin/sucked out and honky
The a7p was much more flexible, attenuator can be fine tuned for brighter/warmer sound.
XO point worked well in the 200Hz to 300Hz range, depends on your preference for slightly more body vs clarity.
2 small but important things learned during the build:
-The A7p was badly effected if not tightly coupled to the baffle, the mids and highs became harsher and the driver lost some of its subtlety.
-While OBs are generally easier to build than boxes, the impact of the quality of the baffle is huge, maybe bigger than boxes.
Just to mention in case someone wants to build something similar, it is not exactly the same as a Manzanita baffle.
Baffle is 20mm MDF, 15x22''.
Wings are 20mm pine, 4'' deep and obviously tapered off below the a7p, later adding some bits of ply boards to try to stiffen it.
Not much of it is intentional, just working with what materials I had on hand.
This was mostly to serve as a test baffle but there is really very little wrong with it, so happy for the moment.
edit:HP resistor should be 7.75k
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Hi Lasercut,
Ignoramus over here just trying to piece together an understanding of the XO,
if you don't mind,
what's the (output) impedance of your source and the (input impedence of the)
two amps you're using to drive the speakers?
[Edit] And the gain of the two amps?
Thanx for anything you care to share at all,
Ignoramus over here just trying to piece together an understanding of the XO,
if you don't mind,
what's the (output) impedance of your source and the (input impedence of the)
two amps you're using to drive the speakers?
[Edit] And the gain of the two amps?
Thanx for anything you care to share at all,
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My current source Z is 20r, the amps are 4x LM3886s at 10x gain.
The HP connects directly to an LM3886 input, so the 7.75k resistors sets the input impedance.
The LP LM3886 input has a 10k resistor in parallel which sets the input impedance... I should have added this to the XO diagram since it is attenuating the LP output.
I dont mind the questions btw
The HP connects directly to an LM3886 input, so the 7.75k resistors sets the input impedance.
The LP LM3886 input has a 10k resistor in parallel which sets the input impedance... I should have added this to the XO diagram since it is attenuating the LP output.
I dont mind the questions btw
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Thanks Pano, for this. I went super budget on my build (just get it built!) and I used iron core on the Vifa. I always feel like something is missing/not quite right. I now have some play money, so looking forward to getting up to spec on the recommendation here.
4.7 MH coil
Well, inflation continues to make things difficult. You can buy a 5 MH 18 ga. from Parts Express and un wind it to get to 4.7 MH. P/N 257-846. $18.00 each. The 5 MH value is only around 10% higher than 4.7 and may work well enough as is. Not unusual for coils to be +/- 10 % of stated value. The higher DCR of the 18 ga. may require some adjustment of the parallel resistor to obtain correct trap performance. Just a thought.
Well, inflation continues to make things difficult. You can buy a 5 MH 18 ga. from Parts Express and un wind it to get to 4.7 MH. P/N 257-846. $18.00 each. The 5 MH value is only around 10% higher than 4.7 and may work well enough as is. Not unusual for coils to be +/- 10 % of stated value. The higher DCR of the 18 ga. may require some adjustment of the parallel resistor to obtain correct trap performance. Just a thought.
John, thanks for the recommendation and definitely thanks for the tip that if DCR goes up that I can adjust the parallel resistor. Funny, about 30 minutes prior to your post, I bumped into some Solen air core inductors at 16 gauge at a more reasonable price. I currently am using the 2.7mH iron core type and did notice that the sound is darker than what I'm used to hearing, but not objectionable. I'm curious how 4.7mH in parallel with 15 ohms or so will affect the sound. Fun times!!
I thought I’d just keep this thread alive and let everyone know this design is still getting built.
I knocked together the 12” inch version from and old bed head I had laying around and was amazed by the open baffle experience
The baffle is only particle board so the woofer really excites it and the thin panel the vifa is mounted in vibrates considerably so I’ve got a few improvements planned for the next build.
Thanks to John and everyone who has contributed to this thread.
I’m keeping an eye out for the next version with the twin woofers that’s been teased. Hope your well John and Hello from down here in Australia
I knocked together the 12” inch version from and old bed head I had laying around and was amazed by the open baffle experience
The baffle is only particle board so the woofer really excites it and the thin panel the vifa is mounted in vibrates considerably so I’ve got a few improvements planned for the next build.
Thanks to John and everyone who has contributed to this thread.
I’m keeping an eye out for the next version with the twin woofers that’s been teased. Hope your well John and Hello from down here in Australia
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