Basics ?
Probably due to my cognitive and operative limitations, but also to some previous experiences, I would already be happy to build a tonearm capable of exploiting correctly only the weak, unreliable, tracking forces, and to move in every direction coherently with the stylus motions, while maintaining the needed stiffness of the whole.
Overcoming the inevitable defects of the different parts of the system (eccentrycity, warps, resonances and so on), and their boring, evident consequences seems to me to be a further complex chapter, to be faced only after an effective solution of the first.
Still not up with that, unfortunately: so i'm anxious to see other's new achievements
c
PS - imho the so called Side Force or skating (= bending = L / R distortion) appears every time the tracking forces (in brief, the Stylus Drag) are, as usual, wasted on the constraint, or spent in the wrong direction, or both (L TAs vs P TA vs P T TA).
The eccentrics etc. may just emphasize the tonearm's basic issues.
Probably due to my cognitive and operative limitations, but also to some previous experiences, I would already be happy to build a tonearm capable of exploiting correctly only the weak, unreliable, tracking forces, and to move in every direction coherently with the stylus motions, while maintaining the needed stiffness of the whole.
Overcoming the inevitable defects of the different parts of the system (eccentrycity, warps, resonances and so on), and their boring, evident consequences seems to me to be a further complex chapter, to be faced only after an effective solution of the first.
Still not up with that, unfortunately: so i'm anxious to see other's new achievements
c
PS - imho the so called Side Force or skating (= bending = L / R distortion) appears every time the tracking forces (in brief, the Stylus Drag) are, as usual, wasted on the constraint, or spent in the wrong direction, or both (L TAs vs P TA vs P T TA).
The eccentrics etc. may just emphasize the tonearm's basic issues.
Hi Andrey,
I'm sorry but I haven't received any notifications from diyaudio of posts on this thread. I am at work at the moment but will read through everything posted since our last communication as soon as I can.
Niffy
I'm sorry but I haven't received any notifications from diyaudio of posts on this thread. I am at work at the moment but will read through everything posted since our last communication as soon as I can.
Niffy
Hi, Carlo
After reading your last post, I found my own thoughts in it.
Not only am I following this path, I hope to follow it to the end.
I will say it a little pompously.
The path you have taken with your Syrinx is a pathon thin slippery ice in the middle of a swamp.
One step to the left, one step to the right and you are lost.
You stumbled and left this path and that is why your Syrinx did not sing.
I have been following your path for almost a year and have already made mistakes and started over more than once.
I am ready for failure. But I will go to the end, until my thoughts run out.
This is excitement - about the same as a mountain climber who climbs another peak.
And now I have started another construction. I just need to defeat the eccentricity.
And then it is either victory or defeat.
I like such puzzles.
I'll wait for Niffy and then move on to the Angling for 90° - tangential pivot tonearms topic.
A good topic, but it's dying. Too bad. We need to support it.
P.S. Your P.S. is not entirely clear to me.
Give me a breakdown of your abbreviations.
I'll write them down on a piece of paper and look at them.
Best regards,
AG.
After reading your last post, I found my own thoughts in it.
Not only am I following this path, I hope to follow it to the end.
I will say it a little pompously.
The path you have taken with your Syrinx is a pathon thin slippery ice in the middle of a swamp.
One step to the left, one step to the right and you are lost.
You stumbled and left this path and that is why your Syrinx did not sing.
I have been following your path for almost a year and have already made mistakes and started over more than once.
I am ready for failure. But I will go to the end, until my thoughts run out.
This is excitement - about the same as a mountain climber who climbs another peak.
And now I have started another construction. I just need to defeat the eccentricity.
And then it is either victory or defeat.
I like such puzzles.
I'll wait for Niffy and then move on to the Angling for 90° - tangential pivot tonearms topic.
A good topic, but it's dying. Too bad. We need to support it.
P.S. Your P.S. is not entirely clear to me.
Give me a breakdown of your abbreviations.
I'll write them down on a piece of paper and look at them.
Best regards,
AG.
For Niffy and other experts on linear tonearms.
The second question.
This is not really a question, but rather my thoughts on a compromise solution to the first question.
Perhaps such a solution has long been known, but I do not know it.
I propose to consider the following change in the tonearm design.
Allow freedom to rotate the lever with the cartridge relative to the carriage at a small anglein the horizontal plane.
The lever is fixed with two springs in the middle of the angle strictly perpendicularto the direction of movement of the carriage. The stiffness of the springs is selected.
Thus, when working with a record with zero eccentricity, the tonearm workslike a conventional linear tonearm.
In the case of eccentricity, a rotational movement is added to the reciprocating movement of the tonearm, like in a conventional rotary tonearm, and the tonearm leaves the tangential position at a small angle.
In my opinion, this will soften the mode of shifting the needle pressure from one side of the groove to the other side.
Of course, this is not an ideal solution. But as they say: of two evils, you need to choose the lesser. But which of them is the lesser is the question.
What do you say?
AG.
The second question.
This is not really a question, but rather my thoughts on a compromise solution to the first question.
Perhaps such a solution has long been known, but I do not know it.
I propose to consider the following change in the tonearm design.
Allow freedom to rotate the lever with the cartridge relative to the carriage at a small anglein the horizontal plane.
The lever is fixed with two springs in the middle of the angle strictly perpendicularto the direction of movement of the carriage. The stiffness of the springs is selected.
Thus, when working with a record with zero eccentricity, the tonearm workslike a conventional linear tonearm.
In the case of eccentricity, a rotational movement is added to the reciprocating movement of the tonearm, like in a conventional rotary tonearm, and the tonearm leaves the tangential position at a small angle.
In my opinion, this will soften the mode of shifting the needle pressure from one side of the groove to the other side.
Of course, this is not an ideal solution. But as they say: of two evils, you need to choose the lesser. But which of them is the lesser is the question.
What do you say?
AG.
Good afternoon Andrey,
I haven't looked for the problem you describe, or become aware of it.
Maybe I have not understood correctly!
If Niffy were to play a constant tone test record recorded on one or both channels and display the output or outputs showing the level, do you think there would be a noticeable variation in the level over time?
I perceive this is the problem you are trying to solve.
Am i correct please?
If there is no variation over time you may be trying to solve a problem that is not significant.
What do you think please?
I have not heard or perceived the variation you describe.
I picked an example at 1000Hz and attached it , showing a recorded tone and its crosstalk to the other channel, and other artefacts. I have also done this type of measurement at around 3000Hz, but I have never seen any variation of the peak signal level with time at these scales. I have also run higher frequencies for frequency response measurements. I guess a variation in level of 1Db would be noticeable, but not audible?
M
There are lots of other problems that do exist, don't worry, but maybe we should add this one as well!?
I haven't looked for the problem you describe, or become aware of it.
Maybe I have not understood correctly!
If Niffy were to play a constant tone test record recorded on one or both channels and display the output or outputs showing the level, do you think there would be a noticeable variation in the level over time?
I perceive this is the problem you are trying to solve.
Am i correct please?
If there is no variation over time you may be trying to solve a problem that is not significant.
What do you think please?
I have not heard or perceived the variation you describe.
I picked an example at 1000Hz and attached it , showing a recorded tone and its crosstalk to the other channel, and other artefacts. I have also done this type of measurement at around 3000Hz, but I have never seen any variation of the peak signal level with time at these scales. I have also run higher frequencies for frequency response measurements. I guess a variation in level of 1Db would be noticeable, but not audible?
M
There are lots of other problems that do exist, don't worry, but maybe we should add this one as well!?
Attachments
Mike56
You understood my question correctly.
But the research needs to be done differently.
I'll explain now. You need to take a record with high frequencies. Let's say from 10 kHz to 18 kHz.
Make artificial eccentricity in it with a file (see photo).
Connect the cartridge to a dual-beam oscilloscope.
You need to compare different frequencies at different eccentricities and see howthe signal changes in each channel.
Perhaps I'm exaggerating the problem, but most likely not.
High frequencies should decrease in turn, first in one channel,and then in the other.
The greater the eccentricity, the greater these swings will be. Left - right, left - right ....
If I'm wrong, I'll be happy.
AG.
You understood my question correctly.
But the research needs to be done differently.
I'll explain now. You need to take a record with high frequencies. Let's say from 10 kHz to 18 kHz.
Make artificial eccentricity in it with a file (see photo).
Connect the cartridge to a dual-beam oscilloscope.
You need to compare different frequencies at different eccentricities and see howthe signal changes in each channel.
Perhaps I'm exaggerating the problem, but most likely not.
High frequencies should decrease in turn, first in one channel,and then in the other.
The greater the eccentricity, the greater these swings will be. Left - right, left - right ....
If I'm wrong, I'll be happy.
AG.
