What a puny tail pipe on the back of that car !
And if that amp is bridged to 4 ohms, or a dual 2ohm drivers are used maybe that will combat the wind loss. LOL.
And if that amp is bridged to 4 ohms, or a dual 2ohm drivers are used maybe that will combat the wind loss. LOL.
Watch the woofer size compared with 6 feet tall man feet
And they use 7 of those ones and many midranges and tweeters.
Sound alike earthquake...very deep bass and the car glasses sometimes goes out from the frames.
The automobile metal parts inflate with the air pressure...crazy thing!
regards,
Carlos
And they use 7 of those ones and many midranges and tweeters.
Sound alike earthquake...very deep bass and the car glasses sometimes goes out from the frames.
The automobile metal parts inflate with the air pressure...crazy thing!
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
I don't think it's that bad Carlos !
I hope my joke was perceived as a jest of good nature, as it was meant to be.
Carlos, i don't think my scope is moody.
It's just me starting to learn about the nature of how amplifiers work.
Finally good progress 🙂
Changed VAS-transistor to bd-139, then tweaked feedback-cap to 12 pF , cap across base-collector of VAS to 22 pf.
No other compensation installed, powersupply-caps are 12200 uF +1000 uF local caps:
All scope-images are 10v/div into 6.75r load.
600 Hz at onset of clipping:
600 Hz clipping:
600 Hz heavy clipping:
15 kHz at onset of clipping:
15 kHz heavy clipping:
The apparent assymmetry is caused by the camera, some glare from reflections (lines are clean in real).
Thanks Carlos and Graham for being great teachers sofar ,time to do some listening
Greetings,
Klaas
I hope my joke was perceived as a jest of good nature, as it was meant to be.
Carlos, i don't think my scope is moody.
It's just me starting to learn about the nature of how amplifiers work.
Finally good progress 🙂
Changed VAS-transistor to bd-139, then tweaked feedback-cap to 12 pF , cap across base-collector of VAS to 22 pf.
No other compensation installed, powersupply-caps are 12200 uF +1000 uF local caps:
All scope-images are 10v/div into 6.75r load.
600 Hz at onset of clipping:
600 Hz clipping:
600 Hz heavy clipping:
15 kHz at onset of clipping:
15 kHz heavy clipping:
The apparent assymmetry is caused by the camera, some glare from reflections (lines are clean in real).
Thanks Carlos and Graham for being great teachers sofar ,time to do some listening
Greetings,
Klaas
Images are good enougth to me..your Lumix camera is fine
Relax...not problems..i am just keeping my traditional good mood when something strange appeared in your screen.
Despite the fact, the reality that you have good intentions, not trying to burn the amplifier image.... every kind of small number of distortions, or even some strange waveform is enougth to perfectionist people to put that design at side...to forget the design and stop to track our thread...and of course, this is against my ideas about this thread.
There are a lot of Myths that can be checked.... there are messages that i am sending in the thread text, there are intentions to suggest people to use testings, A to B comparison, instead to go talking good or bad things about amplifiers they did not have listened...or...units that they had listened in another home, in another day, during another mood, with another people around...well..this is not a good way to compare things..and there are people that is proud by their "listening memories"..when i know that this memory do not exist.... A to B proved that to me...because if you delay 1 second of time switching from one amplifier to the other one under testings, the results start to be randomic and loose all consistence...loose logical characteristics.
Audiophiles, the biggest majority, wants the best possible amplifier, the best possible technologie, the best possible board, the most pretty circuit, the most heavy supply , the biggest amplifier, the most expensive and strange parts and circuits and the interest related to the second place unit is ZERO!
So.... people to construct have to believe, first of all, that they are constructing the best possible piece of jewellery found in this planet...if something is out of order...finished the idea to build.
But...for my happyness, there are researchers alike you are...that insisted into the research and had courage to try something not famous....and this is something that many people do not even try to compare their high techs with simple design...they decide that the simple is worst and do not give a chance to themselves to scape from the ignorance (as they do not know what gonna happens if they try).
Even having complete sure that you are a nice guy, trying something new..with good mood and the cooperative spirit...also i know that the amplifier, during that time something "strange" was found in the clipping signal...was beeing smashed related to the public evaluation...this was bad...despite your intention were not bad.
I am sure you are a good guy...so...i keep a good mood, kidding to maintain people interested to visit us...now things will go into the rails once more...and you have saved my amplifier to be sent to Orion Belts..or constellation....thanks Klaas
I hate your scope...ahahahahah!
Grrrrrr!
Oh...by the way...your Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ4 is wonderfull camera..you need to read the instructions as your focus length is wrong.
regards,
Carlos
😡
Relax...not problems..i am just keeping my traditional good mood when something strange appeared in your screen.
Despite the fact, the reality that you have good intentions, not trying to burn the amplifier image.... every kind of small number of distortions, or even some strange waveform is enougth to perfectionist people to put that design at side...to forget the design and stop to track our thread...and of course, this is against my ideas about this thread.
There are a lot of Myths that can be checked.... there are messages that i am sending in the thread text, there are intentions to suggest people to use testings, A to B comparison, instead to go talking good or bad things about amplifiers they did not have listened...or...units that they had listened in another home, in another day, during another mood, with another people around...well..this is not a good way to compare things..and there are people that is proud by their "listening memories"..when i know that this memory do not exist.... A to B proved that to me...because if you delay 1 second of time switching from one amplifier to the other one under testings, the results start to be randomic and loose all consistence...loose logical characteristics.
Audiophiles, the biggest majority, wants the best possible amplifier, the best possible technologie, the best possible board, the most pretty circuit, the most heavy supply , the biggest amplifier, the most expensive and strange parts and circuits and the interest related to the second place unit is ZERO!
So.... people to construct have to believe, first of all, that they are constructing the best possible piece of jewellery found in this planet...if something is out of order...finished the idea to build.
But...for my happyness, there are researchers alike you are...that insisted into the research and had courage to try something not famous....and this is something that many people do not even try to compare their high techs with simple design...they decide that the simple is worst and do not give a chance to themselves to scape from the ignorance (as they do not know what gonna happens if they try).
Even having complete sure that you are a nice guy, trying something new..with good mood and the cooperative spirit...also i know that the amplifier, during that time something "strange" was found in the clipping signal...was beeing smashed related to the public evaluation...this was bad...despite your intention were not bad.
I am sure you are a good guy...so...i keep a good mood, kidding to maintain people interested to visit us...now things will go into the rails once more...and you have saved my amplifier to be sent to Orion Belts..or constellation....thanks Klaas
I hate your scope...ahahahahah!
Grrrrrr!
Oh...by the way...your Panasonic Lumix DMC-FZ4 is wonderfull camera..you need to read the instructions as your focus length is wrong.
regards,
Carlos
😡
Attachments
That is good news Klaas, Carlos can put his shotgun away now,
his amplifier is reprieved.
If you turn the beam currect down (brightness) on your scope (the camera will compensate) you should have less scintillation and internal reflection at the top and bottom of the screen.
You would think that a slower and lower gain transistor at the VAS would be less likely to cause problems, whilst actually the increased internal capacitance and its variation can initiate oscillation.
This is why I prefer the Toshiba 2SC3421/2SA1358, and 2SC4793 and 2SA1837, even more than BD139/140.
Do let us all know if your efforts were worthwhile.
Cheers .......... Graham.
his amplifier is reprieved.
If you turn the beam currect down (brightness) on your scope (the camera will compensate) you should have less scintillation and internal reflection at the top and bottom of the screen.
You would think that a slower and lower gain transistor at the VAS would be less likely to cause problems, whilst actually the increased internal capacitance and its variation can initiate oscillation.
This is why I prefer the Toshiba 2SC3421/2SA1358, and 2SC4793 and 2SA1837, even more than BD139/140.
Do let us all know if your efforts were worthwhile.
Cheers .......... Graham.
2SC4793 is perfect as driver and VAS
And it is made with some kind of plastic, we do not need to use insulators...pretty good they are.
I do not know if Klaas knows my tradition to shot with a double barreled, 12 gauge shot gun, the circuits that i do not aprove...the last one that turned me crazy was flamebest or blamefest..something alike... i cannot pronunciate the correct name because i turn very nervous.
regards,
Carlos
And it is made with some kind of plastic, we do not need to use insulators...pretty good they are.
I do not know if Klaas knows my tradition to shot with a double barreled, 12 gauge shot gun, the circuits that i do not aprove...the last one that turned me crazy was flamebest or blamefest..something alike... i cannot pronunciate the correct name because i turn very nervous.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Discussion about BD139/140
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97030&highlight=
🙂
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=97030&highlight=
🙂
They are my prefered pair for drivers and to use as VAS
The one that had first selected those units was Hugh Dean from Aspen Amplifiers.... the most respectable researcher i had ever know, because he use ears, not only scope, distortion analisers, spectrum analisers, signal generators and so on.
This transistor price is not high, and despite plastic case, it is able to dissipate 20 watts, and 2 watts without heatsink.
Capacitance in colector is not too big, around 20 picofarads,
The gain is reasonable...from 70 to 90 normally.
This transistor, despite has the possibility to work till 100 megahertz, it is not eagger to oscilate.
I was avoiding to mention, to keep the characteristic of simple, cheap and xtraordinary...using TIP41 as Vas and drivers....but, of course, better transistors can be used.
I could not use better than those...much better than old traditional units as 2SC2238 and 2SA968.
The advantage of those old fellows is that they have sligtly higher gain..but they loose in all other characteristics, including that you will need insulator, as it is traditional...a very standard old fashioned TO-220.
Mr Jacco Vermeullen has many of them in his junk box.... this guy have a lot of good things there...Jacco's treasure!
regards,
Carlos
The one that had first selected those units was Hugh Dean from Aspen Amplifiers.... the most respectable researcher i had ever know, because he use ears, not only scope, distortion analisers, spectrum analisers, signal generators and so on.
This transistor price is not high, and despite plastic case, it is able to dissipate 20 watts, and 2 watts without heatsink.
Capacitance in colector is not too big, around 20 picofarads,
The gain is reasonable...from 70 to 90 normally.
This transistor, despite has the possibility to work till 100 megahertz, it is not eagger to oscilate.
I was avoiding to mention, to keep the characteristic of simple, cheap and xtraordinary...using TIP41 as Vas and drivers....but, of course, better transistors can be used.
I could not use better than those...much better than old traditional units as 2SC2238 and 2SA968.
The advantage of those old fellows is that they have sligtly higher gain..but they loose in all other characteristics, including that you will need insulator, as it is traditional...a very standard old fashioned TO-220.
Mr Jacco Vermeullen has many of them in his junk box.... this guy have a lot of good things there...Jacco's treasure!
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Thank you Tinitus..it seems to me that people is resistant to those ones
BD139 and BD140 works fine into amplifiers using 35 volts supplies...but, people had measured capacitance of 100 picofarads...well...this is not good....maybe because fake ones., or not original ones.
MJE350 and MJE340 are most acceptable cousins.... a lot of people in this forum like them....but they are not so different related BD139 and BD140.
Well...the idea that old is not good..... hummm...i am old...and i am good...hehe
But despite of those facts exposed, and subjective feelings about...i have to listen Graham about that...he knows more than i ever dream to know about those things.
Can you give us a sligtly more detailed explication Graham?...not only saying that others are faster...maybe you can say more than that.
regards,
Carlos
BD139 and BD140 works fine into amplifiers using 35 volts supplies...but, people had measured capacitance of 100 picofarads...well...this is not good....maybe because fake ones., or not original ones.
MJE350 and MJE340 are most acceptable cousins.... a lot of people in this forum like them....but they are not so different related BD139 and BD140.
Well...the idea that old is not good..... hummm...i am old...and i am good...hehe
But despite of those facts exposed, and subjective feelings about...i have to listen Graham about that...he knows more than i ever dream to know about those things.
Can you give us a sligtly more detailed explication Graham?...not only saying that others are faster...maybe you can say more than that.
regards,
Carlos
If I remember correctly it was concluded that the original older ones from (?)... are really very good - but its the well known problem with cheap fake transistors
But I think its very well described, if you read it carefully 😉
BTW ... I have some old used ones I might send you, when I get the time to do it .... on the other hand, you might better stick to something that is easily available to builders ... and not use old vintage parts
But I think its very well described, if you read it carefully 😉
BTW ... I have some old used ones I might send you, when I get the time to do it .... on the other hand, you might better stick to something that is easily available to builders ... and not use old vintage parts
Thank you Tinitus.
Well said..goot to met you once more.
Thank you...from you, everything is welcome.
My last text was corrected related that capacitance...thanks.
regards,
Carlos
Well said..goot to met you once more.
Thank you...from you, everything is welcome.
My last text was corrected related that capacitance...thanks.
regards,
Carlos
The one i tried is a modern version, shiny black, fully insulated 
I have some old ones in my spare-parts box, marked ph (Philips), i could try one of these.
Oh well, live and learn..
With kind regards,
Klaas
I have some old ones in my spare-parts box, marked ph (Philips), i could try one of these.
Oh well, live and learn..
With kind regards,
Klaas
I like them...the old and new ones...BD139 have survived the ancient times, and so
good the specs that they are still beeing provided.
So, it is not really old..it has an ancient heritage, not really a vintage, as it is provided for us, and still used, now a days.
During those last 25 years.... when Radio Amateur using Radio Telephone transmitters (now a days Celular phones)..i remember that i have used BD139 many times, as power drivers (500 miliwatts drivers) into 144 Megahertz FM transmitters...when nothing better was around..the one was used for some time, and even left there inside the transmitter, to stay, if the transmitter was one of mine units.
They was used for Citizen Band radio.... 27 Megahertz operation, and was better than the Japanese drivers we had in early eighties...had more gain in that frequency than the special dedicated ones...those ones made for 27 Megahertz transmitters....so...when they were installed, the result was more exciting power and better class A power output results with less harmonics.
Also used for Ham Radio...from 1 to 30 Megahertz Wide Band transceivers.
Was used to Bias oscilators, the erase bias signal to Tape recorders during seventies and eigthies.
And now a days inside many good audio amplifiers.
I trust in those units....i think they can oscilate (work) fine in my audition limit (17000 Hertz).
Phillips folks!...Eidhoven Holland!...the place were the best developments of audio industry had born!...there, those small folks born...i have strong respect for them....CD born there..also the CCD....Cassete machines....well, without too much noise they were producing the best for us....if those guys continue to respect the BD139...of course i have strong respect too.
There are better ones...modern ones that can beat BD139...but never in price...and never in reliability....more than 45 years serving us.
regards,
Carlos
........................................................................................................
Nordic
I am really sorry because your cat....i think you may find another one that will love you too.
regards,
Carlos
good the specs that they are still beeing provided.
So, it is not really old..it has an ancient heritage, not really a vintage, as it is provided for us, and still used, now a days.
During those last 25 years.... when Radio Amateur using Radio Telephone transmitters (now a days Celular phones)..i remember that i have used BD139 many times, as power drivers (500 miliwatts drivers) into 144 Megahertz FM transmitters...when nothing better was around..the one was used for some time, and even left there inside the transmitter, to stay, if the transmitter was one of mine units.
They was used for Citizen Band radio.... 27 Megahertz operation, and was better than the Japanese drivers we had in early eighties...had more gain in that frequency than the special dedicated ones...those ones made for 27 Megahertz transmitters....so...when they were installed, the result was more exciting power and better class A power output results with less harmonics.
Also used for Ham Radio...from 1 to 30 Megahertz Wide Band transceivers.
Was used to Bias oscilators, the erase bias signal to Tape recorders during seventies and eigthies.
And now a days inside many good audio amplifiers.
I trust in those units....i think they can oscilate (work) fine in my audition limit (17000 Hertz).
Phillips folks!...Eidhoven Holland!...the place were the best developments of audio industry had born!...there, those small folks born...i have strong respect for them....CD born there..also the CCD....Cassete machines....well, without too much noise they were producing the best for us....if those guys continue to respect the BD139...of course i have strong respect too.
There are better ones...modern ones that can beat BD139...but never in price...and never in reliability....more than 45 years serving us.
regards,
Carlos
........................................................................................................
Nordic
I am really sorry because your cat....i think you may find another one that will love you too.
regards,
Carlos
Attachments
Installed the Philips bd-139 as VAS yesterday.
Haven't got much time to evaluate, but it seems to sound slower as bd243c.
I don't do fast ab-tests like Carlos, so please take my comments about sound with a grain of salt.
Carlos, about my camera:
I understand crappy scope-pictures taken with such a beautyful camera make you grumpy lol.
It's a very good camera, 12x optical zoom with stabilizer, 4 mpixel.
Good lens (Leica) ,very FAST also (takes upto 3 images/second).
The only thing i miss is manual focus, this can be very handy for macro-photography.
The performance of this camera is , in my case, usually limited to the operator's abilities 😉
Just a small pic, taken at Burgers Zoo in Arnhem last year:
Links to bigger pictures:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030955.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030936.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030871.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030753.jpg
Will try bd139-bd140 as drivers soon.. sofar very satisfied with the DestroyerX amp
🙂
Best regards,
Klaas
Haven't got much time to evaluate, but it seems to sound slower as bd243c.
I don't do fast ab-tests like Carlos, so please take my comments about sound with a grain of salt.
Carlos, about my camera:
I understand crappy scope-pictures taken with such a beautyful camera make you grumpy lol.
It's a very good camera, 12x optical zoom with stabilizer, 4 mpixel.
Good lens (Leica) ,very FAST also (takes upto 3 images/second).
The only thing i miss is manual focus, this can be very handy for macro-photography.
The performance of this camera is , in my case, usually limited to the operator's abilities 😉
Just a small pic, taken at Burgers Zoo in Arnhem last year:
Links to bigger pictures:
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030955.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030936.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030871.jpg
http://i29.photobucket.com/albums/c272/aqvrs1853/P1030753.jpg
Will try bd139-bd140 as drivers soon.. sofar very satisfied with the DestroyerX amp
🙂
Best regards,
Klaas
You made me feel at home with your pictures.
Those images are very common here...those plants, ligth and colour...nice place you leave....very nice.
And your camera is very good...Leica lenses....the brand is also very good...Lumix, from Panasonic.
But....you was a very bad man with me, the Dx amplifier board.... had not good focus.
You could be more gentle producing, a single picture, framing the board only...to inspect your board a little bit better.
You may understand...you are the first to construct my amplifier....so, your image is important for the Destroyer X Corporation historical files...hehe.
It is possible that this amplifier turns into a Kit someday...but has a chance to be included in some amplifier to crazy car boomer folks, as i can produce 300 watts units with switching supplies...those powerholic will turn crazy watching their woofers melt.... incredible how they love destruction, they feel proud of those things...crazy folks.
Well...lovely images...give me the link to watch more pictures from you.
Sorry to answer...do you have a face?....ahahaha...people from North Europe do not like to show their faces.... i do not understand why..people are handsome there.
Live is interesting...people is much more interesting....ahahaha...and crazy too!
regards,
Carlos
Those images are very common here...those plants, ligth and colour...nice place you leave....very nice.
And your camera is very good...Leica lenses....the brand is also very good...Lumix, from Panasonic.
But....you was a very bad man with me, the Dx amplifier board.... had not good focus.
You could be more gentle producing, a single picture, framing the board only...to inspect your board a little bit better.
You may understand...you are the first to construct my amplifier....so, your image is important for the Destroyer X Corporation historical files...hehe.
It is possible that this amplifier turns into a Kit someday...but has a chance to be included in some amplifier to crazy car boomer folks, as i can produce 300 watts units with switching supplies...those powerholic will turn crazy watching their woofers melt.... incredible how they love destruction, they feel proud of those things...crazy folks.
Well...lovely images...give me the link to watch more pictures from you.
Sorry to answer...do you have a face?....ahahaha...people from North Europe do not like to show their faces.... i do not understand why..people are handsome there.
Live is interesting...people is much more interesting....ahahaha...and crazy too!
regards,
Carlos
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