if I'm not mistaken it's a final amp with a pair of power amps per channel.
if I'm not mistaken, power amplifiers placed under the printout.
If you feel like trying, if they are mosfets, to put two pairs per channel: it changes a lot
it also changes from two pairs to four pairs per channel, but not as from 1 to 2
example, from 4 to 8, in my opinion, it is hardly heard, at least in a scheme like the one I posted
if I'm not mistaken, power amplifiers placed under the printout.
If you feel like trying, if they are mosfets, to put two pairs per channel: it changes a lot
it also changes from two pairs to four pairs per channel, but not as from 1 to 2
example, from 4 to 8, in my opinion, it is hardly heard, at least in a scheme like the one I posted
You are correct,
Using only one pair LMOS as output, sounding is relatively too soft, insipid. But this matter happened with Hitachi/Renesas, Exicon's single die devices.
I also used one pair, but it is dual die devices ECW20N20/ECW20P20. It's two single die device integrated inside package TO-264. That problem is fixed.
Regard,
Cuong Nguyen
Using only one pair LMOS as output, sounding is relatively too soft, insipid. But this matter happened with Hitachi/Renesas, Exicon's single die devices.
I also used one pair, but it is dual die devices ECW20N20/ECW20P20. It's two single die device integrated inside package TO-264. That problem is fixed.
Regard,
Cuong Nguyen
Taking into account the particular method of reverse engineering we can expect a reasonable interpretation, but not a true facsimile. Still, it appears pretty convincing.
There is one particular area which baffles me. The +-5v separate supply for the CCS and the offset compensation. Apparently the sole reason for this additional PS is to reduce the power-on thump. Seems very unlikely the original was designed this way; a separate PS for the entire front end (VAS in this case) would make much more sense.
Any thoughts?
this is a revised scheme so that I define excellent.
I think that the input stage with the 2 bjt Q1 and Q2, channel P and N, separated only leads to problems.
idem Q3 and Q4.
I believe that in 2019 there are excellent products to overcome these strange and archaic audiophile habits of testing semiconductors when there are those who do it, and better, at the level of multinationals.
in any case this scheme sounds, in my humble opinion, in an interesting, very interesting way.
very important is the entry cap that colors or not the final result.
low and dynamic range, unfortunately, not exceptional, the rest is very interesting.
In the scheme there are two choices:
the input stage power supply, with zener, simple, and with LM 317, more complicated, but preferable: everyone can choose whether zener is for VCC + or -
or with 317 and 337
NB
ERROR
C 4 = C 5 = 150 picofarad , pardon
I think that the input stage with the 2 bjt Q1 and Q2, channel P and N, separated only leads to problems.
idem Q3 and Q4.
I believe that in 2019 there are excellent products to overcome these strange and archaic audiophile habits of testing semiconductors when there are those who do it, and better, at the level of multinationals.
in any case this scheme sounds, in my humble opinion, in an interesting, very interesting way.
very important is the entry cap that colors or not the final result.
low and dynamic range, unfortunately, not exceptional, the rest is very interesting.
In the scheme there are two choices:
the input stage power supply, with zener, simple, and with LM 317, more complicated, but preferable: everyone can choose whether zener is for VCC + or -
or with 317 and 337
NB
ERROR
C 4 = C 5 = 150 picofarad , pardon
Attachments
if instead you want a totally coupled DC power amp, without any compensation, very fast, dynamic and with a first-class low range, here is an ad hoc scheme:
a revisiting of Goldmund, Norma and Spectral, all derived or copied from the Hitachi book, just revised and adjusted by each, but nothing unnatural:
this scheme revises and adjusts for the year 2019, the 3 derived from the Hitachi book and adds something from Otala, not bad
a revisiting of Goldmund, Norma and Spectral, all derived or copied from the Hitachi book, just revised and adjusted by each, but nothing unnatural:
this scheme revises and adjusts for the year 2019, the 3 derived from the Hitachi book and adds something from Otala, not bad
Attachments
ERROR
C 4 = C 5 = 150 picofarad , pardon
R2 also appears wrong.
The 317 will introduce a short delay. Does it have an effect upon the power on thump?
pardon , R 2 = R 6 = 510 Kohm
it seems that it does not affect.
I could say that I listened to the stabilizer with the zener and with the 317, but I would say a nonsense to which nobody would believe .
317 or 7815 especially to avoid the zener that I just can't stand
the PCB gets messed up, though
it seems that it does not affect.
I could say that I listened to the stabilizer with the zener and with the 317, but I would say a nonsense to which nobody would believe
.317 or 7815 especially to avoid the zener that I just can't stand
the PCB gets messed up, though
Thanks.
I have no trouble believing that a regulator sounds better in that spot.
What are you using for regulating the 60v supply?
Not sure i understand the need for the shottky diodes in the supply rails when the supply is separate from the outputs and regulated. Ditto for the additional diodes for the input and biasing. Care to explain?
I have no trouble believing that a regulator sounds better in that spot.
What are you using for regulating the 60v supply?
Not sure i understand the need for the shottky diodes in the supply rails when the supply is separate from the outputs and regulated. Ditto for the additional diodes for the input and biasing. Care to explain?
the stabilized power supply of IN and DRIVER provides the Skottky diode downstream of the drivers and pre-drivers before the IN power supplies with the two chips because Q 9, 10, 11, 12 are final power transistors equal to the final ones, they heat and must polarize and pilot the finals of the power amplifiers WELL.
The different absorption I always fear may create problems at the delicate entry stage with those chips.
you could eliminate the diode just before the drivers, but, I wouldn't know whether to delete it or put it changes something, I admit
The diodes between power supply and output antiilektregertikes forces protect the speakers.
The between powering the final power stage and output
antiilektregertikes forces protect the loudspeakers.
What do you think about these amps:
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 014 DUSSUN R20 Hi end Top Class A Reference Power Amplifier Mono Amplifier Mono AMP 300~600Wx1 channel (pair) from Reliable amplifier mono suppliers on Queenway Store
Specifications
Voltage gain: 26.5 dB
Rated Power Output: 300 watts at 8Ω,600 watts at 4Ω
(All of the above power ratings measured from20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.1% THD)
Frequency response: within ±0.5 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz
THD+Noise: ≤0.1 % (300W/8Ω, 600W/4Ω, 20Hz~20KHz)
Signal to noise ratio: better than 102 dB(20 Hz to 20 kHz)
Dimensions: 233 ( W ) ×468 ( H ) ×475 ( D ) mm
9.18(W)×18.43(H)×18.7(D) in
N.W. 36.5 kg ( one machine)
G.W. 42kg ( one machine )
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 005 Study/Copy FM ACOUSTICS FM711MK2 power amplifier 250W*2 8 (ohms) about 99% Direct cloning amp's sound hot sale in China from Reliable direct amplifier suppliers on Queenway Store
FM711MK2 is XLR input power amplifier of FM machine.
100% of the machine according to the original to be copied, the whole structure is exactly the same, exactly the same circuit, exactly the same protection circuit as much as possible to ensure that the same components used.
About three versions:
Standard version:
British Talema 800W Toroidal transformer
American CMC Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Aluminum alloy foot nails
Deluxe version:
German Original BLOCK 1000W Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Flagship version:
FM Original Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Technical parameters:
Frequency response: 1Hz-60KHz
SNR: 110dB
Distortion: 0.005% THD
Input impedance: 40K ohms
Output power: 260W x 2 @8Ω; 500W x 2@4Ω; 800W x 2@2Ω
Input interface: XLR (one set)
Size: 450*450*220mm
Net weight: 30KG
● Output drives any speaker load perfect, even very low impedance or higher capacitance sensor
Unique dynamic damped speaker effect for perfect impulse response and no ringing
● Proprietary, enhanced circuit provides unparalleled music
Circuit\ guarantees any form of distortion, completely without its dynamic or static, even at the lowest signal level - improving other designs by size.
●High-precision low-noise level control to avoid changing the volume tone when changes frequently occur
●The peak output current of the huge output current capability is not limited
5000V power spike suppressor
New mechanical resonance cancellation support for FM acoustic isolation
Low impedance power supply infinite rendering
New high-reliability components help further increase life expectancy
Most components are same as the original , main filter capator , Output relay, original module, output capacitor, power tube, emitter capacitor and so on .
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 007 The newest Study/Copy Dartzeel NHB108 Standard Version power amplifier HIFI AMP NO Negative feedback amp circuit power AMP from Reliable hifi amp suppliers on Queenway Store
Product introduction:
1. The amplifier circuit board: 2 x PCB Circuit board, Panasonic M series electrolytic capacitors, Vishay PR02 and AC03 high power resistance, Philips MRS25 1% 0.5w resistance, Philips silver film capacitor, WIMA MKS-4 capacitor.
2. You can choose RCA or XLR input.
3. WBT Tin solder
4. Vishay BC Electrolytic capacitor
5. Cardas Internal connecting line
6. Finder Output relay
7. Talema sealed toroidal transformer
8. The connecting plug: 2 x CMC RCA socket, 4 x CMC speakers Cable Wire Connector, SCHURTER Power input socket and Gold Plated insurance tube.
Technical parameter:
Input channel: RCA or XLR (freely switch)
Input Impedance: 100K ohms
DC offset: +- 50Mv
Line Gain: +26dB
THD+N: -100dB@no load; -60dB @ 8 ohms
CrossTalk: - 125 dB
SNR: 115dB
Freq. Response: +- 0.014dB @20Hz ~ 20 KHz
Max. RMS Power: 140W @8 ohms, 250W @4 ohms
Size (WxDxH): 440x330x160 (mm)
Weight: 25 KG
N 053 The latest Black Widow Power Amp Amplifier Multi Mode Bridging Balance 8 ohm 350W Dartzeel NHB368 NHB268 Study Version-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
N-053 The latest Black Widow Power Amp Amplifier Multi Mode Bridging Balance 8 ohm 350W Dartzeel NHB368 NHB268 Study Version
*Rated output power: 260 watts RMS, 8 ohms, 420 watts RMS, 4 ohms
*Fixed output gain: 26dB (8 ohms)
*Input impedance: RCA: > 30 k ohms, 5 Hz-200 k Hz
BNC: 50 ± 1 ohm, 10Hz-100K H
XLR: > 100k ohms
*Frequency response: 20Hz-100K Hz, +0, -6dB (BNC)
20Hz-100k Hz, +0, -0.5dB (RCA)
20Hz-50k Hz, ±0.5dB (XLR)
*Total harmonic distortion: < 1%, 22Hz-77k Hz
*Signal to noise ratio: >96dB, A weighting, standard power
*Power consumption: 130 watts (standby), 1300 watts (maximum output power)
*Size: W*H*D 450mm*150mm*365mm
*Input: RCA/XLR/BNC each group, default balanced output
*2 650w (specially designed for hifi transformers)
*12 BC Visha 22000U capacitors,
*Two New York XLR balance seats
*2 pairs of VISHAY capacitors
*1 switzerlands Schurter AC power socket
*The triodes are all from the ON Semiconductor series
* WIMA capacitor, Philips electrolysis BC resistor, etc.
*NW: 41KG
The whole voice is based on Switzerland Dartzeel and then incorporated into the features of our own.
Differences between Black Widows and other versions
According to the sound characteristics and shortcomings of the previous versions, we upgraded the sound,and achieved that one machine , multifunction and many sound styles . The black widow power amp is a full-transistor amplifier , on the circuit we refer to a number of European imported inscription machines for sound correction. The sound obtained is absolutely suitable for the use of the vast number of HIFI friends and families.
Black Widow power amp have good control of the actual hearing sense, low frequency solid force, excellent air sense, and super strong explosive power . whatever the normal songs or symphony ,this machine is doing well .
Parameters:
Size: wide 480 high 200 depth 525
Weight: net weight 51KG
Static power consumption: 150W
Power: 8 Ω 350 W / 4 Ω 600 W
Type a: RCA / XLR / BNC
Black Widow input Interface:
XLR balanced/ RCA / BNC each group, through balanced input, the corresponding function can be switched on the back board switch.
Function:
1. NHB/NFB function feedback setting
2. DC/AC Amplifier function setting
3.DC Servo / No Servo function setting
4. temperature Control current function setting (automatic reduction of Tube operating current when Radiator Stability exceeds set value) default single Tube current is 150ma, switch to 100ma automatically when temperature exceeds 65 ℃.
Material:
1. the best HIFI AUDIO material
2. 2 pieces of 800ws (specially customized transformers for hifi)
3. 12 pieces of BC Vishay 63V 22000UF VISHAY-M 106 advanced electrolytic capacitors
4. 2 pieces of New York balanced sockets
5. 2 pieces of New York audio transformer
6. 2 pieces of Cardas RCA
7. 2 pieces of New York XLR balance sockets
8. 2 pairs of Swiss imported binding post
9. 1 piece of Swiss Schuter AC Power socket.
10. Transistor comes from ON series , internal conductors come from Cardas , capacitors come from WIMA ,PHILPS electrolysis ,BC resistance and so on.
Sound style:
Thick and powerful low frequency, mild magnetic medium frequency, magnificent high frequency.
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 014 DUSSUN R20 Hi end Top Class A Reference Power Amplifier Mono Amplifier Mono AMP 300~600Wx1 channel (pair) from Reliable amplifier mono suppliers on Queenway Store
Specifications
Voltage gain: 26.5 dB
Rated Power Output: 300 watts at 8Ω,600 watts at 4Ω
(All of the above power ratings measured from20Hz to 20kHz with no more than 0.1% THD)
Frequency response: within ±0.5 dB from 20 Hz to 20 kHz
THD+Noise: ≤0.1 % (300W/8Ω, 600W/4Ω, 20Hz~20KHz)
Signal to noise ratio: better than 102 dB(20 Hz to 20 kHz)
Dimensions: 233 ( W ) ×468 ( H ) ×475 ( D ) mm
9.18(W)×18.43(H)×18.7(D) in
N.W. 36.5 kg ( one machine)
G.W. 42kg ( one machine )
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 005 Study/Copy FM ACOUSTICS FM711MK2 power amplifier 250W*2 8 (ohms) about 99% Direct cloning amp's sound hot sale in China from Reliable direct amplifier suppliers on Queenway Store
FM711MK2 is XLR input power amplifier of FM machine.
100% of the machine according to the original to be copied, the whole structure is exactly the same, exactly the same circuit, exactly the same protection circuit as much as possible to ensure that the same components used.
About three versions:
Standard version:
British Talema 800W Toroidal transformer
American CMC Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Aluminum alloy foot nails
Deluxe version:
German Original BLOCK 1000W Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Flagship version:
FM Original Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Technical parameters:
Frequency response: 1Hz-60KHz
SNR: 110dB
Distortion: 0.005% THD
Input impedance: 40K ohms
Output power: 260W x 2 @8Ω; 500W x 2@4Ω; 800W x 2@2Ω
Input interface: XLR (one set)
Size: 450*450*220mm
Net weight: 30KG
● Output drives any speaker load perfect, even very low impedance or higher capacitance sensor
Unique dynamic damped speaker effect for perfect impulse response and no ringing
● Proprietary, enhanced circuit provides unparalleled music
Circuit\ guarantees any form of distortion, completely without its dynamic or static, even at the lowest signal level - improving other designs by size.
●High-precision low-noise level control to avoid changing the volume tone when changes frequently occur
●The peak output current of the huge output current capability is not limited
5000V power spike suppressor
New mechanical resonance cancellation support for FM acoustic isolation
Low impedance power supply infinite rendering
New high-reliability components help further increase life expectancy
Most components are same as the original , main filter capator , Output relay, original module, output capacitor, power tube, emitter capacitor and so on .
Aliexpress.com : Buy N 007 The newest Study/Copy Dartzeel NHB108 Standard Version power amplifier HIFI AMP NO Negative feedback amp circuit power AMP from Reliable hifi amp suppliers on Queenway Store
Product introduction:
1. The amplifier circuit board: 2 x PCB Circuit board, Panasonic M series electrolytic capacitors, Vishay PR02 and AC03 high power resistance, Philips MRS25 1% 0.5w resistance, Philips silver film capacitor, WIMA MKS-4 capacitor.
2. You can choose RCA or XLR input.
3. WBT Tin solder
4. Vishay BC Electrolytic capacitor
5. Cardas Internal connecting line
6. Finder Output relay
7. Talema sealed toroidal transformer
8. The connecting plug: 2 x CMC RCA socket, 4 x CMC speakers Cable Wire Connector, SCHURTER Power input socket and Gold Plated insurance tube.
Technical parameter:
Input channel: RCA or XLR (freely switch)
Input Impedance: 100K ohms
DC offset: +- 50Mv
Line Gain: +26dB
THD+N: -100dB@no load; -60dB @ 8 ohms
CrossTalk: - 125 dB
SNR: 115dB
Freq. Response: +- 0.014dB @20Hz ~ 20 KHz
Max. RMS Power: 140W @8 ohms, 250W @4 ohms
Size (WxDxH): 440x330x160 (mm)
Weight: 25 KG
N 053 The latest Black Widow Power Amp Amplifier Multi Mode Bridging Balance 8 ohm 350W Dartzeel NHB368 NHB268 Study Version-in Amplifier from Consumer Electronics on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group
N-053 The latest Black Widow Power Amp Amplifier Multi Mode Bridging Balance 8 ohm 350W Dartzeel NHB368 NHB268 Study Version
*Rated output power: 260 watts RMS, 8 ohms, 420 watts RMS, 4 ohms
*Fixed output gain: 26dB (8 ohms)
*Input impedance: RCA: > 30 k ohms, 5 Hz-200 k Hz
BNC: 50 ± 1 ohm, 10Hz-100K H
XLR: > 100k ohms
*Frequency response: 20Hz-100K Hz, +0, -6dB (BNC)
20Hz-100k Hz, +0, -0.5dB (RCA)
20Hz-50k Hz, ±0.5dB (XLR)
*Total harmonic distortion: < 1%, 22Hz-77k Hz
*Signal to noise ratio: >96dB, A weighting, standard power
*Power consumption: 130 watts (standby), 1300 watts (maximum output power)
*Size: W*H*D 450mm*150mm*365mm
*Input: RCA/XLR/BNC each group, default balanced output
*2 650w (specially designed for hifi transformers)
*12 BC Visha 22000U capacitors,
*Two New York XLR balance seats
*2 pairs of VISHAY capacitors
*1 switzerlands Schurter AC power socket
*The triodes are all from the ON Semiconductor series
* WIMA capacitor, Philips electrolysis BC resistor, etc.
*NW: 41KG
The whole voice is based on Switzerland Dartzeel and then incorporated into the features of our own.
Differences between Black Widows and other versions
According to the sound characteristics and shortcomings of the previous versions, we upgraded the sound,and achieved that one machine , multifunction and many sound styles . The black widow power amp is a full-transistor amplifier , on the circuit we refer to a number of European imported inscription machines for sound correction. The sound obtained is absolutely suitable for the use of the vast number of HIFI friends and families.
Black Widow power amp have good control of the actual hearing sense, low frequency solid force, excellent air sense, and super strong explosive power . whatever the normal songs or symphony ,this machine is doing well .
Parameters:
Size: wide 480 high 200 depth 525
Weight: net weight 51KG
Static power consumption: 150W
Power: 8 Ω 350 W / 4 Ω 600 W
Type a: RCA / XLR / BNC
Black Widow input Interface:
XLR balanced/ RCA / BNC each group, through balanced input, the corresponding function can be switched on the back board switch.
Function:
1. NHB/NFB function feedback setting
2. DC/AC Amplifier function setting
3.DC Servo / No Servo function setting
4. temperature Control current function setting (automatic reduction of Tube operating current when Radiator Stability exceeds set value) default single Tube current is 150ma, switch to 100ma automatically when temperature exceeds 65 ℃.
Material:
1. the best HIFI AUDIO material
2. 2 pieces of 800ws (specially customized transformers for hifi)
3. 12 pieces of BC Vishay 63V 22000UF VISHAY-M 106 advanced electrolytic capacitors
4. 2 pieces of New York balanced sockets
5. 2 pieces of New York audio transformer
6. 2 pieces of Cardas RCA
7. 2 pieces of New York XLR balance sockets
8. 2 pairs of Swiss imported binding post
9. 1 piece of Swiss Schuter AC Power socket.
10. Transistor comes from ON series , internal conductors come from Cardas , capacitors come from WIMA ,PHILPS electrolysis ,BC resistance and so on.
Sound style:
Thick and powerful low frequency, mild magnetic medium frequency, magnificent high frequency.
Congratulations. This amounts to previously unseen quantity of spam in this thread.
it is from aliexpress
They offer 30-day money back guarantee. Of course it is possible it is fraud, but that's why I formulated the question. If it is a fraud, I do not know. All I know is what I copy/pasted. There are some numbers specified. Are these numbers commensurate with the price? How much these numbers deviate from the originals?
They offer 30-day money back guarantee. Of course it is possible it is fraud, but that's why I formulated the question. If it is a fraud, I do not know. All I know is what I copy/pasted. There are some numbers specified. Are these numbers commensurate with the price? How much these numbers deviate from the originals?
if you approached me I would say that I think nothing.
the dartzeel clone is offered in 4 versions, same board, but different power supplies, from € 600 to € 4900, two nonsense.
The card looks identical to the original, that of the € 38,000 final! ! !
I allow myself to write that the original ending MAY appear - filled - with cap Vishay perhaps to justify the cost.
It is up to the customer to understand if it makes sense to pay € 38K for 2 pairs of final transistors.
My experience says that if one wants to listen well, one plays at home without fainting, one has to make one's own chain or approach DIY.
But also to approach the DIY must understand
96dB
I worry about this number: Signal to noise ratio: >96dB, A weighting, standard power
I do not think the original had such a low rating for the money (probably it had 115dB or even more)
I worry about this number: Signal to noise ratio: >96dB, A weighting, standard power
I do not think the original had such a low rating for the money (probably it had 115dB or even more)
Beautiful numbers for FM
I am looking this FM711 Mk2 and just check on the web site and it seems it is not offered any more
Flagship version:
FM Original Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Technical parameters:
Frequency response: 1Hz-60KHz (it doesn't provide +1 dB)
SNR: 110dB
Distortion: 0.005% THD
Input impedance: 40K ohms
Output power: 260W x 2 @8Ω; 500W x 2@4Ω; 800W x 2@2Ω
Input interface: XLR (one set)
Size: 450*450*220mm
Net weight: 30KG
I am looking this FM711 Mk2 and just check on the web site and it seems it is not offered any more
Flagship version:
FM Original Toroidal transformer
German Original WBT 0735 Speaker Cable Wire Connector
Norwegian Original SOUNDCARE foot nails
Technical parameters:
Frequency response: 1Hz-60KHz (it doesn't provide +1 dB)
SNR: 110dB
Distortion: 0.005% THD
Input impedance: 40K ohms
Output power: 260W x 2 @8Ω; 500W x 2@4Ω; 800W x 2@2Ω
Input interface: XLR (one set)
Size: 450*450*220mm
Net weight: 30KG