How much Gain?
The usual answer is 3db. The real answer is the gain is over a set bandwidth that really takes advantage of mutual driver coupling. The best news that in a horn the two are always coupled and act as a single driver with double the Sd.
So you still get 3 db. Which as a percentage is twice the efficiency or 100% more efficient than a single driver!
Mark
The usual answer is 3db. The real answer is the gain is over a set bandwidth that really takes advantage of mutual driver coupling. The best news that in a horn the two are always coupled and act as a single driver with double the Sd.
So you still get 3 db. Which as a percentage is twice the efficiency or 100% more efficient than a single driver!
Mark
Yes, you get the +3dB due to the mutual coupling.
You also have two drivers with twice the power handling capability.
If you feed the pair with double the power you get a further 3dB, making a total of +6dB of extra Peak SPL.
You also have two drivers with twice the power handling capability.
If you feed the pair with double the power you get a further 3dB, making a total of +6dB of extra Peak SPL.
rolandong said:
Looks good to me. Can you post your fold and dimensions? I had difficulty translating a conic flare into plywood, so what I simmed, and what I built were two different things. (what I built was bigger)
Patrick Bateman said:
Actually it might be tuned just a touch too low, definitely a couple hz lower than expected at least. The problem with these inefficient drivers with very large xmax is that in "regular" alignments these drivers will overheat and burn long before they ever get close to xmax. This makes a low tuning a priority, for me at least. Wasted displacement is the worst audio sin I can imagine.
Also, there's the fact that there is only one proper tuning for a given driver in a tapped horn, or at most a small window of appropriateness. This is a fact that most people continue to ignore although it's been repeated over and over by ALL the people who know what they are doing. This proper tuning frequency will be about an octave or so below measured (not factory spec) driver fs.
AndrewT said:
This is what I thought, but I'm only getting between 3 and 5..... am I being greedy?
how are you doubling the power delivered to the drivers?fb said:
Simply paralleling a pair of 8ohm drivers and expecting an 8ohm amplifier to double it's maximum power output will never happen.
Neither a 4ohm amplifier nor a 2ohm amplifier can double it's output going from an 8ohm load to a 4ohm load.
Post #3130
Hi just_a_guy,
From your drawing it looks like you are using 5/8" thickness material, which should be plenty strong for that small a tapped horn. What is the depth (width?) of your enclosure?
Regards,
Hi just_a_guy,
From your drawing it looks like you are using 5/8" thickness material, which should be plenty strong for that small a tapped horn. What is the depth (width?) of your enclosure?
Regards,
Re: Post #3141
you haven't built this, have you?
That's a pretty big dip. Despite owning that driver, I could never get it model right in a reasonably sized TH.
tb46 said:
you haven't built this, have you?
That's a pretty big dip. Despite owning that driver, I could never get it model right in a reasonably sized TH.
Single V. Dual Comparison
Hi Zobsky,
The single was for comparison, the dual is derived from the TH-SPUD, see posts: 2821 / 2826 / 2827 / 2973. And I have not had the time to build one yet.
Regards,
Hi Zobsky,
The single was for comparison, the dual is derived from the TH-SPUD, see posts: 2821 / 2826 / 2827 / 2973. And I have not had the time to build one yet.
Regards,
JM's Beyma 10G40 TH (bass MIA)
Guys,
I must that I might need to publically apologize and eat humble pie...
Though I do not trust my hears, today I tried to *listen* instead of *measure*...
After extracts of LOTR, Star Wars and The Incredibles, I think my unit definitely does bass below 60Hz...
I am not sure what is wrong yet or if I overcome the issues of my design and/or build by the HT amp settings and cross-over, but the tapped horn was definitely shaking the room.
Again, as my experience with subs equals 0 before this one, take this with a pinch of salt, but this does not look to be a lost cause as I was thinking it was.
I succeeded as well feeding some bass into the LFE channel of the HT amp for 2.0 source (I had to declare all my front speakers as "small" and the Yamaha decided to try to send the bass elsewhere 😉;
As far as I can say, the bass are "clean" and sound "controlled" (hope this does not get lost too much in translation).
I was a little afraid as I heard some quite strong noises (like one thing hitting another one) specially when the plane crashes in the Incredibles, but I think it is the soundtrack and not me hitting X-dammage 😕... reminded me the need for a subsonic filter.
I think I will know a bit more when I get to do those ground plane measurements, but the available room around the DUT is going to be an issue... I do not have a footbal (or soccer) pitch available... especially one with a power socket 😉...
I hope to keep you posted soon.
Guys,
I must that I might need to publically apologize and eat humble pie...
Though I do not trust my hears, today I tried to *listen* instead of *measure*...
After extracts of LOTR, Star Wars and The Incredibles, I think my unit definitely does bass below 60Hz...
I am not sure what is wrong yet or if I overcome the issues of my design and/or build by the HT amp settings and cross-over, but the tapped horn was definitely shaking the room.
Again, as my experience with subs equals 0 before this one, take this with a pinch of salt, but this does not look to be a lost cause as I was thinking it was.
I succeeded as well feeding some bass into the LFE channel of the HT amp for 2.0 source (I had to declare all my front speakers as "small" and the Yamaha decided to try to send the bass elsewhere 😉;
As far as I can say, the bass are "clean" and sound "controlled" (hope this does not get lost too much in translation).
I was a little afraid as I heard some quite strong noises (like one thing hitting another one) specially when the plane crashes in the Incredibles, but I think it is the soundtrack and not me hitting X-dammage 😕... reminded me the need for a subsonic filter.
I think I will know a bit more when I get to do those ground plane measurements, but the available room around the DUT is going to be an issue... I do not have a footbal (or soccer) pitch available... especially one with a power socket 😉...
I hope to keep you posted soon.
Re: JM's Beyma 10G40 TH (bass MIA)
Thank you Jean-Michel, that matches my experience exactly! I know that I need to do some serious air-leak control, but even so I worry that a baby TH (I built one of Erik's 30Hz boxes from his volvotreter site) sounds great for music, but lacks the aggression needed for HT use. My fall-back was to build one of Mr Cowan's Jr Horns (2x10") to provide the concussion waves needed for explosions/train-wrecks etc. I don't have a huge room but I suspect that I am demanding too much from a 6 1/2 driver.
Charles.
jm_kzo said:
Thank you Jean-Michel, that matches my experience exactly! I know that I need to do some serious air-leak control, but even so I worry that a baby TH (I built one of Erik's 30Hz boxes from his volvotreter site) sounds great for music, but lacks the aggression needed for HT use. My fall-back was to build one of Mr Cowan's Jr Horns (2x10") to provide the concussion waves needed for explosions/train-wrecks etc. I don't have a huge room but I suspect that I am demanding too much from a 6 1/2 driver.
Charles.
G'day Charles
The Hornsub Jr will be a poor choice for HT. It only has extension to 40Hz, which is great for music, but you'll miss all the low stuff in your HT soundtracks.
Cheers
William Cowan
The Hornsub Jr will be a poor choice for HT. It only has extension to 40Hz, which is great for music, but you'll miss all the low stuff in your HT soundtracks.
Cheers
William Cowan
Re: Re: JM's Beyma 10G40 TH (bass MIA)
Hi Charles,
I was not aware William made a 2x10' design public.
Is it on his website ?
[Edit] Got it now, I was looking into the Tapped horn section...
6 1/2 is not enough air moved maybe...
The Beyma 10' definitely moves quite some air (feels strange when you come close to the mouth with teh TH playing low)...
Please continue sharing your experience, thanks.
Bluerex said:
Hi Charles,
I was not aware William made a 2x10' design public.
Is it on his website ?
[Edit] Got it now, I was looking into the Tapped horn section...
6 1/2 is not enough air moved maybe...
The Beyma 10' definitely moves quite some air (feels strange when you come close to the mouth with teh TH playing low)...
Please continue sharing your experience, thanks.
Re: Re: JM's Beyma 10G40 TH (bass MIA)
Use more than one and point the mouths of the enclosures into a corner. Remember that the W6-1139 drivers are only rated for 70 watts.
That being said, I put four W6-1139's in a compromise of a tapped horn (extensively described earlier in this thread - I had to make it fit into the space available and definitely left some performance potential on the table as a result) and I can assure you that what I just built and measured does not lack impact and absolutely humbles a 12-inch driver in a sealed box.
Bluerex said:
Use more than one and point the mouths of the enclosures into a corner. Remember that the W6-1139 drivers are only rated for 70 watts.
That being said, I put four W6-1139's in a compromise of a tapped horn (extensively described earlier in this thread - I had to make it fit into the space available and definitely left some performance potential on the table as a result) and I can assure you that what I just built and measured does not lack impact and absolutely humbles a 12-inch driver in a sealed box.
Re: Re: Re: JM's Beyma 10G40 TH (bass MIA)
Have you loaded the mouth into a corner yet or is it still positioned as pictured?
jm_kzo said:
Have you loaded the mouth into a corner yet or is it still positioned as pictured?
AndrewT said:
The amp modules I plan to use offer 300W into 8 ohms and 600W into 4 ohms.
How much bigger does a tapped horn get for 2 drivers relative to 1 driver? That might be what I'm missing (avoiding).
