I've heard the CD-12 multipe times, in multipe systems. I've also heard Mietner, and Elgar, as well as the Linn unit. All inferior -sounding- (as being that which can observably, via listening, be attributed to the clock), in terms of clock accuracy.
What I'm comparing, is the 'known' sound of the clock's effect, on a given circuit. Then, from that, extrapolate the 'sound' of the clock.
I hesitate to say it, as you guys may make fun of me...but the clock is so darned clean, you can hear the 'envelope' of the 'reality' of nyquist coming into effect as you go up the frequency spectrum of a given 44.1/16 CD audio track. What I mean, is that I can hear the sound of the increasing distortion 'area' or 'envelope' of increasing distortion..and hear it clearly, defined..via the change or rise in frequency. As a definable, or observable increasing percentage component. I can hear it begin in the upper mid, lower treble..and increase in value as the frequency increased. I can also clearly hear the 'wall' of the distortion component created by the sampling frequency, in terms of how it affects ambience and 'space' in a given recording concerning soundstaging. All this due to the incredibly low jitter of the clock I put together. Go ahead and doubt, but I can't even begin to explain the reasons why I what I say is not bull. If you knew how the clock was built and constructed, you would then know why yourself, that what I say is true, and observable. Insanely low jitter. My business partners, of course, are all audiophiles, each one has of these devices in a given modified CD player, and can clearly hear it as well..
And, to add, if the clock ever gets patented, it will not be expensive. I'm a firm believer in the methods and ways of Ray Dolby. Sell it cheap to everyone and get a penny out of everyone's pocket and make 10 times more money.
What I'm comparing, is the 'known' sound of the clock's effect, on a given circuit. Then, from that, extrapolate the 'sound' of the clock.
I hesitate to say it, as you guys may make fun of me...but the clock is so darned clean, you can hear the 'envelope' of the 'reality' of nyquist coming into effect as you go up the frequency spectrum of a given 44.1/16 CD audio track. What I mean, is that I can hear the sound of the increasing distortion 'area' or 'envelope' of increasing distortion..and hear it clearly, defined..via the change or rise in frequency. As a definable, or observable increasing percentage component. I can hear it begin in the upper mid, lower treble..and increase in value as the frequency increased. I can also clearly hear the 'wall' of the distortion component created by the sampling frequency, in terms of how it affects ambience and 'space' in a given recording concerning soundstaging. All this due to the incredibly low jitter of the clock I put together. Go ahead and doubt, but I can't even begin to explain the reasons why I what I say is not bull. If you knew how the clock was built and constructed, you would then know why yourself, that what I say is true, and observable. Insanely low jitter. My business partners, of course, are all audiophiles, each one has of these devices in a given modified CD player, and can clearly hear it as well..
And, to add, if the clock ever gets patented, it will not be expensive. I'm a firm believer in the methods and ways of Ray Dolby. Sell it cheap to everyone and get a penny out of everyone's pocket and make 10 times more money.
Somehow it was obvious, that this is only the beginning of an advertisement for a new commercial product from you KBK.
Textbook start: Claim you have the most fantastic idea, but don't reveal anything about it. People will get curious, and since you don't show anything, people can't see if it's real or ****. You generate interest, that is or maybe isn't justified ... ?
Seen 1000 times before
Or show us what you got ......
Textbook start: Claim you have the most fantastic idea, but don't reveal anything about it. People will get curious, and since you don't show anything, people can't see if it's real or ****. You generate interest, that is or maybe isn't justified ... ?
Seen 1000 times before
Or show us what you got ......
Why would we make fun of you???
Just because you have finally shown us that this thread is just for you to shill your revolutionary device?
(We knew that from the beginning................)
Wish I had a $ for every schmuck that told me that they heard of some revolutionary device that was going to change transportation forever, especially for people with disabilities.
Yeah, turned out to be that Segway POS. See, we have all heard these kind of claims before.
The world awaits you. The rest of us are going to enjoy some music.
Jocko
Just because you have finally shown us that this thread is just for you to shill your revolutionary device?
(We knew that from the beginning................)
Wish I had a $ for every schmuck that told me that they heard of some revolutionary device that was going to change transportation forever, especially for people with disabilities.
Yeah, turned out to be that Segway POS. See, we have all heard these kind of claims before.
The world awaits you. The rest of us are going to enjoy some music.
Jocko
KBK said:
KBK,
I've had this level of performance for ages.
The clock I use has less than 1ns jitter, which test as true by the pro-audio press labs:
http://www.rme-audio.com/english/hdsp/hdsp9632.htm
The onboard DACS offer >110dB SNR which is more than virtually all the integrated DAC/Transports known to man and a a large proportion of the outboard DAC solutions.
The PC or MAC is definitely the way ahead for affordable quality that make $10,000+ combo's look very overpriced. I really can't see any reason for a transport/DAC anymore. All the ones I've heard sound worse than what I've got now, including an expensive Theta DaViD transport.
There are downside to using PC's such as the level of technical know how to get them working at their best but its a problem that's far more simple than most expect.
Fan noise is another issue but this is a weak excuse because its very easy to build a completely fanless PC now and hard drives featuring fluid dynamic bearings from likes of Seagate are inaudible.
The RME is far from the most technically advanced sound solution for the PC, the sky is the limit as always. But even now its outperforming virtually all DAC/Transports on the planet and its bit perfect. Something you can't say about every standalone machines.
Well, Jocko. I've done my best to deal with your particular psyhcological bent, but after a while, one has to stop being polite when it is not warranted.
if I was SELLING something, I'd show you something to sell now, wouldn't I?
It's darned tempting, but I won't decend to your level. All you are showing at this point, is the enormity of your senseless attitude toward others. Ie, issues involving your inability to play nice with others.
I'l put it another way: " 'Judgement', is a fools game. All it serves to do, is anchor one in the self-lies of their own past, and stops all furthur development and growth of the psyche involving that area of life."
I ventured an opinion, and also ventured a specific point that might be 'inquired' about. last but not least, I was hoping to aviod flaming, simply because I ventured into a bit of speculation about a given point of observation.
Perhaps I'm merely trying to find out (at this point, now) where the state of the art is, in clock design, so I can see if I should even bother continuing down the road I'm on, concerning the development of this particular item. I mean, the last poster gave me a bit of relevant info. And I thank him for it.
I mean really, Jocko. Really. Your own ignorance and pre-disposition toward judgment of others is showing. I thought I'd reserve and withold any sort of judgement of your character, but the image of the football players (avatar) beside the handle you have chosen (Jocko Homo) , really -does- seem to show the extent of your interpersonal literacy.
Mods, please close this thread. thanks.
if I was SELLING something, I'd show you something to sell now, wouldn't I?
It's darned tempting, but I won't decend to your level. All you are showing at this point, is the enormity of your senseless attitude toward others. Ie, issues involving your inability to play nice with others.
I'l put it another way: " 'Judgement', is a fools game. All it serves to do, is anchor one in the self-lies of their own past, and stops all furthur development and growth of the psyche involving that area of life."
I ventured an opinion, and also ventured a specific point that might be 'inquired' about. last but not least, I was hoping to aviod flaming, simply because I ventured into a bit of speculation about a given point of observation.
Perhaps I'm merely trying to find out (at this point, now) where the state of the art is, in clock design, so I can see if I should even bother continuing down the road I'm on, concerning the development of this particular item. I mean, the last poster gave me a bit of relevant info. And I thank him for it.
I mean really, Jocko. Really. Your own ignorance and pre-disposition toward judgment of others is showing. I thought I'd reserve and withold any sort of judgement of your character, but the image of the football players (avatar) beside the handle you have chosen (Jocko Homo) , really -does- seem to show the extent of your interpersonal literacy.
Mods, please close this thread. thanks.
Only if you can fit into them. If not, you may have to have them let out a bit. Or conversely, sewn a bit tighter. Whatever works for you. But please, don't take photos, and don't use them as an avatar.
Edit: Just got my Brown Dog Adapters (dual 627 Surface to single 8 pin dip), Now I can put the 627's in the final output stage of the Shanling.
Edit: Just got my Brown Dog Adapters (dual 627 Surface to single 8 pin dip), Now I can put the 627's in the final output stage of the Shanling.
Having an ability in one area, does not indicate an ability in another. Also, when one has a questioning attitude, that does not nessesarily mean that one is incapable...but merely questioning. For example, If I did not ever question my own actions, or look at them anew all the time, I'd be anchored in my own past behaviours. For some, that means the comfort of the familiar, for others, like me, that feels like death.
There are clear and defined reasons for this situation that you seem to be questioning about. I have been modifying audio equipment for 20 years, or thereabouts. If I go into something with perfect confidence and defined ways of doing things, how much am I going to learn? How closely will I be observing? So I always ask questions, even when I'm sure of what I'm doing.
As for the design involved, I'm not given to explaination, not even a hint. There are plenty of intelligent people who all they need is hint. I myself am exactly like that. I'm afraid of someone who is as sharp as I am when it comes to figuring things out with almost no information, of course. Human nature. The reality is, that there are plenty of smart guys out there.
Like I said, I can't explain. If this post confused you, well, that's a good thing too, in it's own way.
There are clear and defined reasons for this situation that you seem to be questioning about. I have been modifying audio equipment for 20 years, or thereabouts. If I go into something with perfect confidence and defined ways of doing things, how much am I going to learn? How closely will I be observing? So I always ask questions, even when I'm sure of what I'm doing.
As for the design involved, I'm not given to explaination, not even a hint. There are plenty of intelligent people who all they need is hint. I myself am exactly like that. I'm afraid of someone who is as sharp as I am when it comes to figuring things out with almost no information, of course. Human nature. The reality is, that there are plenty of smart guys out there.
Like I said, I can't explain. If this post confused you, well, that's a good thing too, in it's own way.
Hate to disappoint you, but I know a lot more about being fair than you can imagine.
Why do you feel the need to find the current state of the art in clock design on a hobbyist forum? The guys that know what it is are not likely to share it here. Ditto for asking for help. You have peers.........you would best be served to ask them. That is what those of us in similar positions do. Leave the questions for the hobbyists. They come here asking for our help, and some of us go out of way to help them. That is basically the way it works here: they ask "us" questions, and we lend a helping hand. It is not the other way around. Others who have traversed the same path as you have started out on have received similar treatment.
Yes, perhaps this thread needs to be closed. You seem to have learned your lesson not to start threads the way you did. Doesn't mean that we won't have fun reminding you from time to time. Some of us are better, or is it more persistent, at poking fun.
Jocko
Why do you feel the need to find the current state of the art in clock design on a hobbyist forum? The guys that know what it is are not likely to share it here. Ditto for asking for help. You have peers.........you would best be served to ask them. That is what those of us in similar positions do. Leave the questions for the hobbyists. They come here asking for our help, and some of us go out of way to help them. That is basically the way it works here: they ask "us" questions, and we lend a helping hand. It is not the other way around. Others who have traversed the same path as you have started out on have received similar treatment.
Yes, perhaps this thread needs to be closed. You seem to have learned your lesson not to start threads the way you did. Doesn't mean that we won't have fun reminding you from time to time. Some of us are better, or is it more persistent, at poking fun.
Jocko
Phase Noise Measurements
Hello All,
In regards to Terry's post 16.
I once contacted audiocom asking about the technical specifications of their product especially in regards to the jitter spec.
The response I got from them is that they have never measured it .
I guess that the jitter performace should be better than the standard clock circuit but would I spend 170 pounds without any proof of the fact??
Blair
Hello All,
In regards to Terry's post 16.
I once contacted audiocom asking about the technical specifications of their product especially in regards to the jitter spec.
The response I got from them is that they have never measured it .
I guess that the jitter performace should be better than the standard clock circuit but would I spend 170 pounds without any proof of the fact??
Blair
It would be hard for any external clock not to be better than the internal one. This is because >99% of them put the clock in the filter chip. It has to be the noisiest chip in any CDP.
I would be certain that the same ol' 74HCU04-type clock, all by itself would be better. Even if fed from a 7805. Feed one from a circuit like the one you can find on the Wenzel site, and you have probably reduced jitter over one order of magnitude.
Nope, you won't even need 17 pounds to do that one yourself.
For that kind of money, yes you should expect some proof of low jitter. Say less than 3-5 pSec, and specified over a given frequency range. Preferably at low frequencies, and not just over 1 kHz.
Jocko
I would be certain that the same ol' 74HCU04-type clock, all by itself would be better. Even if fed from a 7805. Feed one from a circuit like the one you can find on the Wenzel site, and you have probably reduced jitter over one order of magnitude.
Nope, you won't even need 17 pounds to do that one yourself.
For that kind of money, yes you should expect some proof of low jitter. Say less than 3-5 pSec, and specified over a given frequency range. Preferably at low frequencies, and not just over 1 kHz.
Jocko
You are missing the point, Elso...........
If you take the same lousy circuit, put it into a pico gate, it will work better just because there is less contirbution from grundge on the supply and ground. It will be better still if you use a good supply.
I have only seen a few CDPs that use an external Pierce, and when they do, they muck it up by using all 6 gates in the chip.
No, it won't be great, but it will be much better than it was. Which is awful. The point is that you can improve your performance on shoestring budget.
Are you going to make me build one and measure it just to prove my point?
Jocko
If you take the same lousy circuit, put it into a pico gate, it will work better just because there is less contirbution from grundge on the supply and ground. It will be better still if you use a good supply.
I have only seen a few CDPs that use an external Pierce, and when they do, they muck it up by using all 6 gates in the chip.
No, it won't be great, but it will be much better than it was. Which is awful. The point is that you can improve your performance on shoestring budget.
Are you going to make me build one and measure it just to prove my point?
Jocko
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