Can you hear a difference between 2 solid state preamps?

Can you hear a difference between the two test files

  • I can hear a difference, but have no ABX result

    Votes: 12 50.0%
  • I cannot hear a difference and have no ABX result

    Votes: 6 25.0%
  • I can hear a difference and have an ABX result

    Votes: 4 16.7%
  • I cannot hear a difference and have an ABX result

    Votes: 2 8.3%

  • Total voters
    24
  • Poll closed .
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The rise time (or frequency range, call it as you like) and the noise level which is more than 10dB better for #1 preamp. This is a lot, both. #1 is almost 10x faster and 10dB less noisier. IMO and IME linear changes (FR, Tr) and reduced noise make much more difference than nonlinear distortion. #1 is more transparent, more accurate, with higher subjective dynamics and more impact. Less forgiving and less smoothing. This is my experience that such component is often not well accepted, because it is too revealing. Interestingly enough the base of these differences was possible to transfer even through the DAC-ADC path and display it as sound samples into public.

Seems the ones who do like transparency,accuracy,dynamics and impact are stuck with smooth and forgiving......starting to make sense now.

All the more reason to listen before buying.....anymore my purchases will only be with a 30 day satisfaction return policy. And also need to give a closer look at the ‘not well accepted’ reviews!

Thanks Pavel.......I think this was a little epiphany!
 
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As Pavel said "This is in agreement with my long term experience – very transparent audio components with highest dynamic range are usually not preferred by listening, especially if the music sound material is not technically perfect."
It would be interesting with better source material
 
I have similar experience, as in this test, from the past, when I built different preamp with similar BW (about 1MHz) which was extremely detailed and revealing. Putting and additional LP filter at the input (100kHz/-3dB) made the sound "smooth", however much less revealing and with less impact. It seems that even small linear changes in the transfer function may be quite audible and after some training detectable even in the ABX.
 
The rise time (or frequency range, call it as you like) ...

I have similar experience, as in this test, from the past, when I built different preamp with similar BW (about 1MHz) which was extremely detailed and revealing. Putting and additional LP filter at the input (100kHz/-3dB) made the sound "smooth", however much less revealing and with less impact. It seems that even small linear changes in the transfer function may be quite audible and after some training detectable even in the ABX.

I will not follow-you totally on those conclusions.

My 2 ways horn big system, limited at 16KHz, has a lot more "impact" and is a lot more 'revealing' than my poor little KEF LS 50 wireless that goes up flat ? to 40KHz.

My actual CFA amplifier for medium/treble is very fast, and bandwidth limited at hf with its input filter. The filter remove artificial "hifi" shining, and some kind of distortion, making percussion (drums and specially cymbals) lot more natural, strong and, strangely, more 'percussive': i don't feel any microdynamic lost in the way once filtered. It is more like you have removed a cigaret paper curtain in the path.

Last, as an ex sound engineer, listening to my own past work, it seems that the losses of treble that age has caused to my audition has allowed-me to be a lot more sensitive in the little details of production. My cymbals are a lot better at the end of my career, tending to remove trebles, than at its beginning where I tried to add as much as possible.

As an example, on the Kef, there is an optional delay to put their two ways in acoustic phase at their crossing frequency. Little change on the response curve, around their crossing frequency, little change on the tonal balance, lot of change on the "impact" and 'separation' between instruments (attacks).

My big two ways system (plus big sub) has been carefully 'time ' aligned from the start.

I draw no general conclusion, but have some personal ideas about all this.
The importance of the slew rate of the amps, even if the signal does not solicit-it, the influence of their dynamic transfer characteristic (VFA compressive, CFA expansive) etc.

Just my two cents. Still trying to find explanations.
 
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... IMO and IME linear changes (FR, Tr) and reduced noise make much more difference than nonlinear distortion...
... It seems that even small linear changes in the transfer function may be quite audible and after some training detectable even in the ABX.
Thank you. Human perception is a very complex issue, relating aspects of measured performance to it has been very difficult for me. My curiosity was not about which part is better or worse, but more about relevant aspects to note which makes perceptible difference when distortion is already very low.
This is Cabot measurement and distortion comparison. Nothing in common with the suggested "IMD hump", ...
Sorry my confusion made you do extra unfruitful work, fortunately Jan straighten me out. I was hands off EE stuff and left this hobby alone for 30+ years doing other things.
 
As Pavel said "This is in agreement with my long term experience – very transparent audio components with highest dynamic range are usually not preferred by listening, especially if the music sound material is not technically perfect."
It would be interesting with better source material

I agree. I have same experience.

Some designers tempted to make all recording sound good, pleasing to ears.
 
I think that Scott Wurcer has completely disproved the suspicion of AD797 responsibility to ESS "IMD hump" in this post:

I don't think Samuel would mind me showing this excerpt. The text made it clear that there was some randomizing of the gain ranging going on, as you can see each cycle can be different. It is possible (I am speculating) that using a differential circuit the glitches can be made to cancel in some way. I have no idea without looking at the internal signals. Op-amp rolling is not the way to approach these real engineering problems.
 

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6L6

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Clearly different in initial impressions.

I wish I had ABX to see if there was a consistently recognizable difference.

Also found the recording to be a curious choice for a 'technical' comparison, but I must admit I enjoy the music very much. :)
 
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