When many copper cables sound different from many silver cables, and both different from many silver plated copper cables... (I'm simplifying it slightly for the sake of clarity)
Well, it would be utter mental blindness rather than a lack of common-sense to fail to realize that each material has its own basic sonic character. 🙂
So... you only really require the experience, to form a personal common-sense on the whole cable subject. 😉
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I see.
Forgive my asking such an obvious question, but I assume that, when these comparisons were made, only the conductor material was different and every single other aspect was the same (as in length, gauge, cable geometry, all other materials involved etc.)?
Silly of me to ask I know, but I'm sure we all agree that if any other differences at all were present, then talk of different conductor materials 'sounding' different is completely meaningless, as it would not be possible to state what caused the percieved difference (assuming there is one, without prejudice) in the sound. It could be anything.
Forgive my asking such an obvious question, but I assume that, when these comparisons were made, only the conductor material was different and every single other aspect was the same (as in length, gauge, cable geometry, all other materials involved etc.)?
Silly of me to ask I know, but I'm sure we all agree that if any other differences at all were present, then talk of different conductor materials 'sounding' different is completely meaningless, as it would not be possible to state what caused the percieved difference (assuming there is one, without prejudice) in the sound. It could be anything.
I'm actually thinking about doing something like this. Identical IC's except for one being copper and the other silver.
The downside is of course the cost. Going all the way is going to cost an arm and a leg.
So, it's in the pipline but it may very well be quite a while before I actually do something about it. Since it'll be just for fun and I don't really expect any big difference there are other projects higher up on my list of things to do.
The downside is of course the cost. Going all the way is going to cost an arm and a leg.
So, it's in the pipline but it may very well be quite a while before I actually do something about it. Since it'll be just for fun and I don't really expect any big difference there are other projects higher up on my list of things to do.
Give it up Scott.
Andrea has been explained hundreds of times, why his reasoning is to say the least, flawed.
Magura 🙂
Andrea has been explained hundreds of times, why his reasoning is to say the least, flawed.
Magura 🙂
The sole fuction of an IC is to transfer a signal from one peice of equipement to another, as accuratly as possible, niether adding noise to or degrading said signal in any way, therefore if an internnect has a 'sonic signature' it is flawed IMO.
I am curious as to what would cause the difference between silver and copper interconnects, or even silver plated copper? I dont belive skin depth causes any effects at audio frequencies, and I have seen faster signals go down copper interconnects without any degrading so I dont belive transient responces is the culprit. So for those who are convinces there is an audible difference, I would appreciate a simple explanation of what causes it please?
I am curious as to what would cause the difference between silver and copper interconnects, or even silver plated copper? I dont belive skin depth causes any effects at audio frequencies, and I have seen faster signals go down copper interconnects without any degrading so I dont belive transient responces is the culprit. So for those who are convinces there is an audible difference, I would appreciate a simple explanation of what causes it please?
Ok, I see you don't get it yet 🙂
Over time I've been using many cables with all the popular geometries, dielectrics and metals, and what I've found (one of the most basic findings actually) is that whenever copper only is used, the cables sound all in a certain way in terms of tonal character (mainly sonic color); whenever silver only, all sound in another, clearly recognizable way, whatever the cable geometry; whenever silver plated copper, there are some of the peculiarities of silver added to some of those of copper, plus a certain something more that must be unique to the silver plating of copper. 🙂
Clearer now? No need to be more scientific than this...man's mind isn't a calculator, after all...we're slightly more intelligent. 😎
No, not in the least bit clearer I'm afraid.
If I understand you correctly, you have not performed the basic comparative test, where every single variable is held constant bar one, the effect of which (or lack thereof) you wish to investigate. That's the most simple, yet fundamental of all investigative proceedures. We're not talking rocket-science here, or terrifying physics in nuclear labratories; just basic common sense. If you are changing multiple variables, there can be no logical comparison or conclusions drawn on this particular subject of the audibility of conductive materials (or lack thereof) as you do not know what factor, or combination thereof is resulting in any changes (assuming there are any).
If I understand you correctly, you have not performed the basic comparative test, where every single variable is held constant bar one, the effect of which (or lack thereof) you wish to investigate. That's the most simple, yet fundamental of all investigative proceedures. We're not talking rocket-science here, or terrifying physics in nuclear labratories; just basic common sense. If you are changing multiple variables, there can be no logical comparison or conclusions drawn on this particular subject of the audibility of conductive materials (or lack thereof) as you do not know what factor, or combination thereof is resulting in any changes (assuming there are any).
With my very anti-scientific (and proudly so) methods, I've come to focus the differences not only between cable conductors (metals), but also between cable geometries, and conductor typologies too, really reliably.
So much so that I can roughly predict how a new interconnect cable will sound even before I hear it. Usually I'm not contradicted by the subsequent listening...not too harshly, anyway 😛
I guess we just talk different languages when it comes to method in learning..
So much so that I can roughly predict how a new interconnect cable will sound even before I hear it. Usually I'm not contradicted by the subsequent listening...not too harshly, anyway 😛
I guess we just talk different languages when it comes to method in learning..
Hi SY,
I never said I didn't care why. What I said was,
So, in the absence of a blind tests, which is like all of the time, I trust my ears. I think in with A-B comparisons and extended listening you can get a pretty good idea of how a component sounds. And, I'm well aware that ears can play tricks on you.
I'm certainly not against blind testing, but I'd do it a bit differently than your protocol. And I'd use a switch box to do an extended listening blind test, but many don't like that either.
Many people comment that silver wire sounds cleaner/brighter, and thats been my experience. Just thought there might be some explanation out there other than, "you're just hearing things."
It's far and away the most likely explanation, so dispose of that one (or confirm it) first.
As a side note, ears do NOT play tricks on you. Your brain does, at least if you're a human.
It also depends on what brain, I think 🙂
Anyhow... the way you hear (through your ears) is influenced by your psychological state; so it changes during the day, among the other things.
That's one of the reasons why you have to live with things (listening to real music, i.e. music you really enjoy listening) to understand them... not A/B them in a single listening session...
Andrea, you simply gotta open a book once in a while.
It has been proven on many occasions, that the brain sure does play tricks on you, and that goes for EVERYBODY, also you, also if you don't like it, even if you won't admit it.
Magura 🙂
As I said, brain certainly does "play tricks": your psychological state strongly influences your entire perception of reality. It's reasonable to expect the same even for the appreciation of sound quality... in fact, it's precisely so.
I will leave the entire matter of expectations, illusions, pride etc. aside... as this would be quite an uncomfortable matter to uncover, for us audiophiles 😀
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Vanity. Definitely my favorite sin --John Milton
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Yeah... usually the favorite sin of whoever has a strong personality (such as a great poet). And also that of whoever has it too weak 🙂
99.99%
I think that (for audio) the more nines, the better, quite simply 🙂
However, it seems like copper/silver/whatever purity isn't everything that matters to audio quality. It's also the molecular structure; and even the smoothness of the surface of the extruded wire, as it seems.
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Although Andrea is having a rough time here I feel there are nuances between black and white, lots of grey.
If one percieves a sonic quality that is present in one cable material and different in another material regardless of construction it might be seen as a common trait. In this case silver and copper have a percieved different sonic quality.
I'm not sure I would detect any difference if there even is one but I can't really dismiss it as nonsens based on the listening impressions alone.
If one can't be consistent in a blind test it'll be kind of difficult to raise support for any claims.
Ears are very sensitive so imho there might very well be some nuances we haven't been able to measure yet?
On the other hand, there are so many factors playing a role that it becomes difficult to really prove it.
To put it simply, Just because we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
But proving that it exists without measurements to back it upp will be difficult at best.
If one percieves a sonic quality that is present in one cable material and different in another material regardless of construction it might be seen as a common trait. In this case silver and copper have a percieved different sonic quality.
I'm not sure I would detect any difference if there even is one but I can't really dismiss it as nonsens based on the listening impressions alone.
If one can't be consistent in a blind test it'll be kind of difficult to raise support for any claims.
Ears are very sensitive so imho there might very well be some nuances we haven't been able to measure yet?
On the other hand, there are so many factors playing a role that it becomes difficult to really prove it.
To put it simply, Just because we can't measure it doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
But proving that it exists without measurements to back it upp will be difficult at best.
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