Yup. That's how I understand it which is why I'm puzzled by SY's claim that high purity copper's conductivity is less than that of "normal" copper.
se
SE, I thing you should read that post by Steve Dunlap once more.
Hint: The maximum conductivity of ETP copper occurs at approximately 200 ppm of oxygen
Magura 🙂
Hint: The maximum conductivity of ETP copper occurs at approximately 200 ppm of oxygen
Magura 🙂
Additional hint "ETP", which in fact means that other copper version conduct better. 🙂
See for example in Steve´s link the second to the last graph.
Wishes
The point was that zero oxygen apparently leads to slightly lower conductivity than small amounts (like .0002%). All of that is pretty insignificant- the conductivity changes are 1% and less, and common contaminants like silver have little effect.
Then look at the graph. 100% pure copper has lower conductivity than copper with some oxygen content.
Magura 🙂
You must be reading the graph wrong.
The 99.999% copper is at the top, above 102% IACS.
The higher the IACS percentage, the higher the conductivity.
se
I am.
Here, let's all look at it:
The X axis oxygen content, weight %. The Y axis is electrical conductivity %IACS.
99.999% OFHC is at the top, above 102% IACS.
All the oxygenated coppers, including ETP, are below that. Which means that "normal" ETP copper has a LOWER conductivity than high purity OFHC copper.
se
I didn't even notice it was you that started it TBH. I was merely reflecting on the presence of another wire thread in general. There are a lot of them all over the shop, & as a rule, they all turn out the same way, with two armed camps emerging, both of which refuse to accept the alternative view has any validity of any kind. Which gets a bit depressing after a while.
Oh well. As far as wire purity is concerned, from my POV, you don't want to be using complete junk, with severe corrosion (which is why I usually prefer solid core, because it has less surface area to corrode, although I've very rarely encountered corrosion in audio cables myself). But as for hearing differences between, what? Say, 5 nines & 6 nines purity copper? Over typical audio runs? The only way you could actually make a meaningful comparison would be to have two wires identical in every single respect other than that one would be drawn from one purity & the other from the, er, other. You'll be doing well if you can manage that, unless you're a wire manufacturer, or can commission one. So, would you hear a difference? Well, what do you think? Personally, I think there's about as much chance as I have of being invited to No.10 Downing St. for a drink this evening, but in the absense of being able to make such a test, only the individual can decide where they stand on that one. I haven't seen anyone perform that test yet, let alone on multiple occasions with multiple listeners, and in a variety of systems to ensure some form of statistically significant data. About the closest I've seen are comments from manufacturers in their advertising claiming to have decided upon x purity because it 'sounds better', but they provide zero supporting information of the type described above, so again, draw your own conclusions on that one.
OTOH, you might hear a difference between otherwise identical wires if some more dramatic changes were made in the conductor material. Say, if you had three, one of silver, one of copper, and one of gold. Fairly wide differences in resistivity there. Even then, differences would largely depend on the gauge of the wire decided on for the comparison / test, the length of the run involved, and the speaker and amplifier employed; viz. how much resistance is present in the conductors; what kind of load exists, & what kind of output impedance, respectively?
Whether conductor materials have a 'sound' or not, speaking for myself, I don't buy it. Speaker wire does not produce sound, unless you strip the insulation & use it to string your double-bass, banjo or whatever. 😉 It merely carries a signal from one active component to another; assuming both are 'accurate' (whatever that means, and however it's defined is what you happen to want) then logically the object is to have a wire that affects the behaviour of these two components as little as possible. That means resistance low enough to ensure minimal voltage drop, and capacitance & inducance kept within sane levels. If you want to use it as a tone control of course, either to correct for abberations at either end, or simply to help get the sound you happen to like, then you can play with its electrical properties to your hearts content.
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Member
Joined 2002
HAH! i have their dvd in my dvd collection showing how their speakers are made and how good of quality they have!
I've found out one can get cotton insulated copper wire fairly cheap (in comparison to what regular audio cables cost) but the drawback is no declaration of purity. It's only marked as copper wire.
It's got the right wire gauge, cotton is a nice touch and it's got an attractive price.
The only questionmark is the purity, it just doesn't say.
It's got the right wire gauge, cotton is a nice touch and it's got an attractive price.
The only questionmark is the purity, it just doesn't say.
If it's ETP, it must have a minimum 99.95% purity, most of the rest being a bit of oxygen and the other impurities that the oxygen scavenges.
And if you can find some high purity copper wire, I can have it covered in cotton.
se
I am.
Here, let's all look at it:
The X axis oxygen content, weight %. The Y axis is electrical conductivity %IACS.
99.999% OFHC is at the top, above 102% IACS.
All the oxygenated coppers, including ETP, are below that. Which means that "normal" ETP copper has a LOWER conductivity than high purity OFHC copper.
se
Sorry, you're right, my bad.
Magura 🙂
For me, I've always been a cable believer, since I first heard a quality audio interconnect (was an Audioquest Jade).
Yes, and that's why it works, improving transient speed... I think?
Hmm, well they don't sound as bad as I made them sound. 😛 My VDH The Bay C5 sounds very good overall, in fact. Surely I'd prefer to use my (more expensive) Audioquest King Cobra.
It's also kind of more relaxed with microdynamics...which isn't such a great thing. However, the Audioquest PSC+ copper of my King Cobra sounds more like silver + the warmth of copper...
Hmmm...see above
I don't know, actually... it depends on the plating I guess. VDH connectors are copper then silver then gold plated: they sound great even if they're made of brass. Something similar for Cardas and Kimber connectors.
And the cheap Neutrik's are direct gold plated brass (no nickel in between)... maybe that's why they're really not bad at all, besides the small amount of metal used.
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potatos.. puhtahtoes
What's interesting about that graph is that 99.99% copper can have >1000 ppm oxygen content...😀😉
What's interesting about that graph is that 99.99% copper can have >1000 ppm oxygen content...😀😉
Ok, I'll have to call you on this one 😀
As you imply some of it makes sense, could you please point that part out to me?
Magura 🙂
Does someone else's experience make no sense to you? I don't pretend to make sense, I just shared my personal experiences for what they are.
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