But in DBT we are not trying to develop a comprehensive view of reality. We are ONLY trying to find a difference between two sounds. If, with ONLY your ears, you cannot hear a difference, then by definition there is no audible difference (for you).
If on the other hand you can hear a difference if the test is done uncontrolled, sighted, that then shows that the brain's conclusion: 'there is an audible difference' is based on other inputs than from the ears.
jd
I suspect I don't want to know the answer to this, but what was all the waffle about mp3 in aid of? I thought this thread was supposed to be discussing wire? 😕 Ah well.
I don't know what 'perceived dynamics' are supposed to be I'm afraid, let alone when applied something like an op-amp or a wire. Dynamic range is dynamic range; one of the more obvious aspects of presentation. If you don't think that means anything, try listening to an unsupported 3in FR driver at high SPLs in a large room...
OK, reasonable definition, and you can certainly assess the most critical aspects by measuring a system. No big deal. Been done for years.
Could you point me toward the research on this?
What has that got to do with the data recieved? What goes on in the individual's head is a matter for doctors & psychologists specialising in hearing-related matters.
Indeed not, because it doesn't mean anything. Many do picture sound in terms of colours, but not the vast majority. So you are quite correct: as far as I am concerned, sound does not have anything to do with colours -how many people, blind from birth, would have the slightest idea what you're talking about? The perception of it may for some people, which is not the same thing.
Unfortunately, quite a few do just that in the audio-wire world. The example I used was in fact a real example (from Siltech), which in a system with an amplifier DF over 20, and a nominal 8ohm speaker load resulted in a -3dB droop at 20KHz. Not necessarily a bad thing in some situations, especially given the propensity for a lot of commercial speakers these days to have a ruddy great peak in the extreme HF, but the fact remains. The wire was wallet-wiltingly expensive.
That's a bit of a sweeping statement given you haven't supported it isn't it?
I quite agree. Just about impossible to hear in fact, unless you're a ~15yo schoolgirl, who tend to be most sensitive to HF, and totally impossible if you're deaf above ~14KHz, as the majority of men over about 50 are. LF hearing is rubbish for everyone of course.
I don't know what 'perceived dynamics' are supposed to be I'm afraid, let alone when applied something like an op-amp or a wire. Dynamic range is dynamic range; one of the more obvious aspects of presentation. If you don't think that means anything, try listening to an unsupported 3in FR driver at high SPLs in a large room...
OK, reasonable definition, and you can certainly assess the most critical aspects by measuring a system. No big deal. Been done for years.
Could you point me toward the research on this?
What has that got to do with the data recieved? What goes on in the individual's head is a matter for doctors & psychologists specialising in hearing-related matters.
Indeed not, because it doesn't mean anything. Many do picture sound in terms of colours, but not the vast majority. So you are quite correct: as far as I am concerned, sound does not have anything to do with colours -how many people, blind from birth, would have the slightest idea what you're talking about? The perception of it may for some people, which is not the same thing.
Unfortunately, quite a few do just that in the audio-wire world. The example I used was in fact a real example (from Siltech), which in a system with an amplifier DF over 20, and a nominal 8ohm speaker load resulted in a -3dB droop at 20KHz. Not necessarily a bad thing in some situations, especially given the propensity for a lot of commercial speakers these days to have a ruddy great peak in the extreme HF, but the fact remains. The wire was wallet-wiltingly expensive.
That's a bit of a sweeping statement given you haven't supported it isn't it?
I quite agree. Just about impossible to hear in fact, unless you're a ~15yo schoolgirl, who tend to be most sensitive to HF, and totally impossible if you're deaf above ~14KHz, as the majority of men over about 50 are. LF hearing is rubbish for everyone of course.
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True! Of course. Here I was just suggesting that the perception of existing sonic differences will inevitably be harder, thus more uncertain, thus slower to put into focus, in "DBT". 🙂
Not really, unless you have silly things going through your mind, or unless you have a wild imaginative life. 🙂 It was never the case with me: based on experience, not scientific tests (being reasonable is not exclusive to any specific discipline 😉), my findings have always been "repeatable". Alright...I'm not unfailingly reliable too, but what on earth is!? 🙂
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If you do a sighted test, and you perceive a difference, and then you do THE SAME test but now blind, and you hear no difference.
That proves that the audible differences you perceived in the sighted case are constructed by your brain from other inputs than sound.
jd
That's just a hypothesis. In reality, when I've realized (synaesthetically) a sonic difference between two cables, or two opamps (my favorite examples 😀)... then you don't need seeing/knowing/whatever anymore to tell which is which. But being completely blinded from the start... well that (I imagine) would be a bit different. Surely less natural 🙂
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