Stick to your principles, Andre. Of course, the ear itself, especially just defined as a pressure microphone, cannot resolve the subtle aspects that we hear.
It is like taste without smell, it works, but not well.
Same with hearing, it takes both extra processing in the ear and in the brain to get refinement in what we listen to. And so what, is our brain ALWAYS lying to us? I don't think so. We, as a species, would have been dead long ago, if this were the case.
It is like taste without smell, it works, but not well.
Same with hearing, it takes both extra processing in the ear and in the brain to get refinement in what we listen to. And so what, is our brain ALWAYS lying to us? I don't think so. We, as a species, would have been dead long ago, if this were the case.
What in the world are you talking about? Are you saying that you can hear wire material differences using MP3 as source material?
Dynamics, colors, refinement 😱🙂
Yes! Every wire sounds different, no matter what the source material. So in my experience it's worth, e.g., using quality interconnects (I have Chord iChord, Kimber GQ-Mini...) even from a decent MP3 player (Creative Zen in my case) to my main system. Maybe hearing cables with an AM radio as the audio source would turn a bit difficult 🙂
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This is one good example of how the different senses concur in forming perceptions of reality!
What we individuals experience is never, ever a lie. It's generalizations that deny the simple, obvious diversity of individual experiences of "the same reality" what's a (awfully big) lie! As Shoupenauer has found, the truth lies in the subjectivity.
Another good statement Andrea! Indeed, the different senses all work together to form your perception. Your perception is build from inputs from all the senses.
That's why sometimes in DBT the perceived audible differences disappear: the brain no longer can fuse the external inputs together, it can only rely on the ear inputs, and that's not enough to make out the differences.
jd
Now I completely don't follow you. "The sky is blue, therefore my cat is running."
That is one reason why listeners should be trained to perform DBT's, you can't use a few students to quickly perform a DBT.
I give up.
Andre, it is completely logical. Refinement etc are constructs of the mind as a reaction to the sensory inputs. MP3's cause different inputs, so it is well possible that listening to MP3 doesn't give you (as much) refinement etc perception.
Not necessarily of course; since these terms (refinement etc) are not well defined and also since listener perception varies, some may perceive, with MP3, what they see as refinement, others not. YMMV is very true here.
jd
It's pretty simple. Identical signals (or several together if we're talking a multichannel system) have to sound identical. Anybodies ears, anybodies brain. I don't know how to continue any kind of logical or rational discussion if one doesn't believe that. To hear something different implies different signals. Signals can be compared and measured to (you can pick just about any number you want here, but I'll say) 10 ppm. There is no evidence whatsoever that any human can detect a 10 ppm difference between anything, be it the taste of wine, the sound of music or how hard they're being hit over the head. Wait, I'm wrong. I think you can detect a 10 ppm level of skunk or mercaptan in a gas pipe. So maybe we do equipment reviews by smelling the stuff? Anyway, our failings in measurement seem to be in complexity of the answer, not any inability to detect the differences. If you can hear the difference between conductors, it has to result from a signal difference. And that difference would be absolutely measurable and detectable. Obviously you have to include the source and destination equipment, as it's part of what determines the response (I use the word response in a broad sense). IMO, any differences you measure will be the result of resistance differences, or they'll be the result of factors that couldn't be held constant, like the dielectric properties of the insulation.
CH
CH
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Joined 2002
It is very well possible that several people can listen to the same sound, at the same time, yet hear/perceive something different.
You only have to attend a listening session and witness the often heated discussions about what it was what they heard.
Since perception is the product of inputs processed by a unique human brain, it would be rather astonishing if everybody would agree that they all heard/perceived the same. And I don't even mention the problem that the same words, to express perception, often mean different things to different people.
Edit: I do agree with you that audible differences are the result of differences in signals which are in principle measureable.
jd
Yes in my opinion that's no question. Assuming you and I understand the same by the word 'refinement' in musical context, of which I am not at all sure.
But it also means there is a sliding scale: you can't say: with .wav I have refinement, with MP3 I have not. Well, maybe you, maybe me not. Maybe you still have refinement with MP3 340kps, but no longer with MP3 128kps.
And there is music where you will never have refinement no matter what the system.
jd
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Yes, but nonetheless, you can hear the differences of the interconnect cables in these two parameters, however to a lesser extent (than with a better source) arguably.
My description would be 'reproduced with enough accuracy and detail to sound realistic and believable'.
Surely it will depend on recording quality but MP3 will always be a compromised format.
Sad but true.
Never tried, if you are happy with MP3's then just use RG58 and lampcord. 😀
... which is a very sliding scale, very vague, very personal, so pretty useless to compare impressions with others. YMMV...
Yes it's compromised, just like all reproduced music. There's lots of different MP3's. There's lots of different types and recorded quality of music. Your sweeping statement is unsubstantiated.
jd
As long as you use real acoustical instruments as a reference it is not that vague or personal but yes it will always be difficult to compare impressions.
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