planet10 said:
Dave,
Do you mind posting some favorite mid units? I'm looking at similar design constraints (cross at ~300, ~3k) and I will probably be trying a ribbon (JP2?) versus a silk dome. (SS2905/9500 or similar) I was looking at the Vifa P13WH MTM but I've heard it is not the most revealing unit.
ScottG,
Thanks for pointing out PR170Z0. I will definitely have to take a look...this would integrate seamlessly with the pair of HM170Z0 I'm puttng on the bottom. Does the excursion limitation make this a bad candidate for a "play it loud" design? I wouldn't think so...
Hey this is mainly for sreten seeing that he posted the threead about these speakers. Um those apex jr's that are only 5 dollars
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-4.php3#ATD
5 dollars is not much money at all, i was wondering if those speakers actually make halfway decent sound. Because for five dollasr ill gldaly buy me some.
thnx
http://ldsg.snippets.org/sect-4.php3#ATD
5 dollars is not much money at all, i was wondering if those speakers actually make halfway decent sound. Because for five dollasr ill gldaly buy me some.
thnx
Re: move quick for Audax
Most of my favorites have to found in 2nd hand shops because they haven't been made for that long. Members of the FE103 family and its competitors (ie Coral) my fave being the old alnico units (with tweaks), the modern FE103/108 and even the RS 40-1197 are good too. There are also some old 5" units by Coral that are also quite special -- i've only heard pairs of ceramic magnet ones, but i know alnico versions exist (i have a single). Amounst modern day units, there is a wide range of Fostex units (note; my idea of a mid is to get a good FR and use it as a mid), the Visaton B200 is outstanding (probably the best of the relatively inexpensive 8" FRs but with high Q requires an IB or a big box, the Jordan JX92/125/150. The PR170MO (paper) is nice, but definily just a mid. Some i'd like to check out are the triangles, and the small PHLs (same design team that did the PR17s. And then there are things like Acoustats -- a little inefficient but great midranges.
Your link is to the ATDs, which the $5 ApexJr ribbons aren't.
Fortunately the flat surround makes it easy to DIY a new surround when the foam one fails.
dave
tiroth said:
Most of my favorites have to found in 2nd hand shops because they haven't been made for that long. Members of the FE103 family and its competitors (ie Coral) my fave being the old alnico units (with tweaks), the modern FE103/108 and even the RS 40-1197 are good too. There are also some old 5" units by Coral that are also quite special -- i've only heard pairs of ceramic magnet ones, but i know alnico versions exist (i have a single). Amounst modern day units, there is a wide range of Fostex units (note; my idea of a mid is to get a good FR and use it as a mid), the Visaton B200 is outstanding (probably the best of the relatively inexpensive 8" FRs but with high Q requires an IB or a big box, the Jordan JX92/125/150. The PR170MO (paper) is nice, but definily just a mid. Some i'd like to check out are the triangles, and the small PHLs (same design team that did the PR17s. And then there are things like Acoustats -- a little inefficient but great midranges.
Konnan101 said:
Your link is to the ATDs, which the $5 ApexJr ribbons aren't.
salas said:
Fortunately the flat surround makes it easy to DIY a new surround when the foam one fails.
dave
you know I've heard others that have said the PR170MO sounds better - but it doesn't, I've heard both. (decay isn't as clean, nor is subjective transparency, and dynamics are not as good either). It is however easier to work with.
Not good that Audax is pulling-out, if so then you can always spend twice as much and get PHL (and perhaps achieve better performance - don't know, haven't heard them - but they were from Audax's R&D, and the drivers certainly look the "business").
tiroth: considering the amount of bandwidth vs. power input, it should be fine..
Not good that Audax is pulling-out, if so then you can always spend twice as much and get PHL (and perhaps achieve better performance - don't know, haven't heard them - but they were from Audax's R&D, and the drivers certainly look the "business").
tiroth: considering the amount of bandwidth vs. power input, it should be fine..
Navin, looking at your constraints - for simplicities sake consider a Jordan (4 driver) array with rear horn loading. (or less money their single 5 inch driver - kind of a Manger on the cheap.)
In fact Klang & Ton had rear horn design for the 5 inch driver.
here it is:
http://www.plasmatweeter.de/mysystem_new.htm
(Then there is also the absurdly large horn design from pass-labs.)
In fact Klang & Ton had rear horn design for the 5 inch driver.
here it is:
http://www.plasmatweeter.de/mysystem_new.htm
(Then there is also the absurdly large horn design from pass-labs.)
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/drivers/ribbon.html
Sorry wrong link these arw the drivers i was talking about.
are these drivers any good, cause ribbon tweeters for five arent to expensive.
Sorry wrong link these arw the drivers i was talking about.
are these drivers any good, cause ribbon tweeters for five arent to expensive.
sad but true
Audax is pulling out this summer. If they change decisions I will post. PR170MO sounds best to many (for Pass in Rushmore too), others (fewer) like PR170Z0. PHL is a close shot since it is made by the same man. Its power handling and tough tropical cone is better true. Their 1220 is a bird and goes down to bass but it achieves a moderate 93dB. I use 1220 with Audax A20 neodymium/titanium tw and they sound great together with 20W triode.
Audax is pulling out this summer. If they change decisions I will post. PR170MO sounds best to many (for Pass in Rushmore too), others (fewer) like PR170Z0. PHL is a close shot since it is made by the same man. Its power handling and tough tropical cone is better true. Their 1220 is a bird and goes down to bass but it achieves a moderate 93dB. I use 1220 with Audax A20 neodymium/titanium tw and they sound great together with 20W triode.
Konnan101 said:
They are OK, but not really great (they certainly sound better than they measure)... for $5 each, buy yourself a couple and try them out. If you get twice as many as you need they can also be disassenbled and made into dipole (open back) tweeters. It doesn't improve their measurements but they do sound a bit more open.
dave
Check out Dave's site:
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/drivers/ribbon.html
I would imagine this would revolve around cannibalizing two tweeters for the "holy" magnets. ^_^
http://www.t-linespeakers.org/drivers/ribbon.html
I would imagine this would revolve around cannibalizing two tweeters for the "holy" magnets. ^_^
ScottG said:
Thanks Scott.
What goes around.....when i first started on this i was looking at a system built around the JX92 fullrange. then i was told that their HF response leaves a bit to be desired. and so it went. with the Jordans I can see 2 alternates now....a JX92 with a JP2 or a JX125 with a JX 53.
To make life even more difficult i'd like to restrict driver cost to US$200 per channel. 5 channels under $1000 (drivers alone). However given that the cabinet is small and XO non exisant the project cost will not get too out of hand.
Having to contend with serious import hassles (duties, taxes, no return or exchange) and not being able to listen to these drivers I am making the most of the expereinces of guys like you (and dave) so i have one final design.
Time is on my side. I have time. 2 years is the time i have given myself to get the design done. the manufacture will take a lot less.
Hey Guys...
FIrst I'd like to say that I'm grateful for a website where I can benefit from the experience of other hobbyists, etc., but I'm very confused on the issue of "best tweeters" I recently bought a pair of Ravens, because I heard that they were great, but now I'm learning of there downside. Like not as dynamic or natural sounding as the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeters.... and very directional. (I don't like to sit with my head locked into a vice while listening.. It kind of takes the pleasure out of listening.) Anyway, in my adventures on the internet, it seems that most of the Class "A" Stereophile and Absolute Sound "Ultimate" Speakers (from $15,000.00 up to $100,000.00) are using the Esotar Tweeter. Anyway, ignoring the fact that they cost $1200.00 per pair, can anyone offer comments on them and how they compare with the Ravens. Eggleston and Dynaudio seem to lean of the fact that they sound far more natural... and are much more dynamic... whatever that means....
FIrst I'd like to say that I'm grateful for a website where I can benefit from the experience of other hobbyists, etc., but I'm very confused on the issue of "best tweeters" I recently bought a pair of Ravens, because I heard that they were great, but now I'm learning of there downside. Like not as dynamic or natural sounding as the Dynaudio Esotar Tweeters.... and very directional. (I don't like to sit with my head locked into a vice while listening.. It kind of takes the pleasure out of listening.) Anyway, in my adventures on the internet, it seems that most of the Class "A" Stereophile and Absolute Sound "Ultimate" Speakers (from $15,000.00 up to $100,000.00) are using the Esotar Tweeter. Anyway, ignoring the fact that they cost $1200.00 per pair, can anyone offer comments on them and how they compare with the Ravens. Eggleston and Dynaudio seem to lean of the fact that they sound far more natural... and are much more dynamic... whatever that means....
I was looking at the Raven R1's but in the end chose the Visaton MHT12 Ribbon. Mainly because of the MHT12's more natural presentation, other than that I'd say that the two are closely matched.
They are incredibly cheap at around $400 for a pair and could be priced $100-200 higher and still be a bargain.
They are incredibly cheap at around $400 for a pair and could be priced $100-200 higher and still be a bargain.
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