what he said was, you need to measure your port in opening areal, not diameter
Or if using its diameter to scale it: D2 = D1*SQRT(Dn)
where:
D1 = existing diameter
D2 = new diameter
Dn = number of D1
(2) 3" = 3*SQRT(2) = (1) ~4.243" diameter, so to get (1) 6" would require (4) 3" as Bob's area values imply.
I've wondered why some cabs I've seen had such a large vent (~70 Hz Fb) versus the small duals (~59 Hz Fb) shown on the AN site, now I know.
GM
where:
D1 = existing diameter
D2 = new diameter
Dn = number of D1
(2) 3" = 3*SQRT(2) = (1) ~4.243" diameter, so to get (1) 6" would require (4) 3" as Bob's area values imply.
I've wondered why some cabs I've seen had such a large vent (~70 Hz Fb) versus the small duals (~59 Hz Fb) shown on the AN site, now I know.
GM
Ports, tuning, and such
Actually, i was simply reporting what the plans stated. Now that it's caused a lil stir, I'll have to go back and do a proper T/S alignment design. Problem is, I can't do anything right now, with this pair, as they are severly out-of-spec.
No sense keeping it a secret, I plan on shipping these back for either a refund, or a replacement pair. $224.00 is still a a lot of money to me,
never mind the cost of shipping these back. Hopefully, not too much as I am in Knoxville, and he is in St. Louis. If by chance I get a refund, I'll buy a pair of TB 1722's. Heard a pair at my buddy Mark's house... I liked what I heard.
Actually, i was simply reporting what the plans stated. Now that it's caused a lil stir, I'll have to go back and do a proper T/S alignment design. Problem is, I can't do anything right now, with this pair, as they are severly out-of-spec.
No sense keeping it a secret, I plan on shipping these back for either a refund, or a replacement pair. $224.00 is still a a lot of money to me,
never mind the cost of shipping these back. Hopefully, not too much as I am in Knoxville, and he is in St. Louis. If by chance I get a refund, I'll buy a pair of TB 1722's. Heard a pair at my buddy Mark's house... I liked what I heard.
I'd certainly hope so, cutting box Q ~ in half! FWIW, dual 3" x ~4" long would be a bit higher SQ though while maintaining a low enough vent mach and of course if out of spec on the high side, a larger box tuned lower, ~aperiodic or even sealed is called for.
GM
I like the 1808 because...
Dave,
What about the the 1808 do you like better relative to the 1772? Can either of them reproduce the human voice realistically?
I think there is a lot of interest in these drivers, as they might offer improved sound quality (with fewer full range 'warts') at a semi-reasonable cost.
Regards,
Bob
Dave,
What about the the 1808 do you like better relative to the 1772? Can either of them reproduce the human voice realistically?
I think there is a lot of interest in these drivers, as they might offer improved sound quality (with fewer full range 'warts') at a semi-reasonable cost.
Regards,
Bob
Understood.
No surprise there.
How far out? As far out as some other models have measured?I resemble that remark! Right now, 'too rich for my blood' to even consider gambling the $$$.
It's a shame they misrepresent at least some of their models as the couple I saw looked much higher build quality 'in the flesh' than their pricing implied, though just being on display, no clue as to their performance or whether they were hand picks from a large selection.
GM
1772 seems a competent driver - maybe a bit pricey - imo it was a bit on the neutral/hifi->mildly bland side driven by solid state class A amps but that might change with single ended tube. I'd think it could be better with less xmax and more sensitivity. 1808 might not be suitable for some enclosed designs. Did 1808 come out move lively? 1772 had good vocals in my Karlson and Karlson-type couplers. If a coupler is favorable (sometimes tricky!!!) it will subjectively do better than a direct radiator in middles and highs. IIRC 1772 in blh sounded as good or better than Nirvana's Super 8 on vocals.
Ok got it. You helped a lot. I will make attempts to reach the best solution. It will be a fun exercise.
Thanks
Hi Bob,
Try calculating the area.... then tell me the answer...
??
(1.5^2*pi)*2=14.137166941154069573081895224758
(3^2*pi)=28.274333882308139146163790449516
Two 3" ports have an area of EXACTLY 1/2 the area of one 6" port. Your point is?
Bob
AN 10 Super Cast or Alnico?
Hello,
I am newbie here and this is my first post in this forum.
I come from Poland - the country which has the biggest Jesus in the world, I like Polish 'pierogi' and at last but not least... I have some questions...
I use a KT88 PP amp class A ~12wpc (hardly modificated Chineese Music Angel Amp) and I'd like to change my 84dB SEAS ER18RNX+27TBC/G speakers to something a little bit more sensitive... let's say a 90-95dB 8ohm speaker set which allow me to decrease amp load .
I consider having/building a speaker set using proaudio coax drivers (like Beyma or Eminence CX series) or fullrange drivers. Going fullrange without XO's seems to be nicer.
I'd like to have a pair of AN 10 Super Cast or AN 10 Super Alnico but I really don't know which to choose. They would be my first fullrange speakers and I have no idea how do they sound like. As a matter of fact such a drivers (fullrange I mean) are not very popular in Poland and it's hard to listen to them or even talk to someone who use them (if you type 'audio nirvana' in most popular Polish audio forum search window it will return '0 matches' :/ )
The AN 10 Super Cast pair would cost about $350 and Alnicos about $900 (incl. shipping, customs etc.) I'm not sure if Alnico's are worth spending this $550 extra if they are worth spending $900 at all.
And if choose one of them, what kind of enclosure I should use?
AFAIK CSA enclosures are not optimal for AN drivers. It was discussed few posts before.
After quite a long time of reading your posts I consider:
- SPQR EZ10 or
- regular BR (about 120-150 litres / 4.3-5.4cu ft. tuned to 40-45Hz)
enclosure for AN 10 CF - sims are quite promising,
and
- open-baffle,
- semi open-baffle (which I mean a regular box without or almost without back side)
- sealed stuffed enclosure (~150 litres / 5.4cu ft. stuffed in 50-80%)
enclosures for Alnico version.
I listen to acoustic jazz generally, rather small sets (solos, duos, trios) but I really like double-bass as a instrument (I really love it!) and it makes speakers bass response quite important.
If you have any sugestions or you can give me some advice about drivers, enslosures etc. they will be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Maciek
P.S. Sorry for my english I hope to improve it a little
Hello,
I am newbie here and this is my first post in this forum.
I come from Poland - the country which has the biggest Jesus in the world
, I like Polish 'pierogi' and at last but not least... I have some questions...I use a KT88 PP amp class A ~12wpc (hardly modificated Chineese Music Angel Amp) and I'd like to change my 84dB SEAS ER18RNX+27TBC/G speakers to something a little bit more sensitive... let's say a 90-95dB 8ohm speaker set which allow me to decrease amp load .
I consider having/building a speaker set using proaudio coax drivers (like Beyma or Eminence CX series) or fullrange drivers. Going fullrange without XO's seems to be nicer.
I'd like to have a pair of AN 10 Super Cast or AN 10 Super Alnico but I really don't know which to choose. They would be my first fullrange speakers and I have no idea how do they sound like. As a matter of fact such a drivers (fullrange I mean) are not very popular in Poland and it's hard to listen to them or even talk to someone who use them (if you type 'audio nirvana' in most popular Polish audio forum search window it will return '0 matches' :/ )
The AN 10 Super Cast pair would cost about $350 and Alnicos about $900 (incl. shipping, customs etc.) I'm not sure if Alnico's are worth spending this $550 extra if they are worth spending $900 at all.
And if choose one of them, what kind of enclosure I should use?
AFAIK CSA enclosures are not optimal for AN drivers. It was discussed few posts before.
After quite a long time of reading your posts I consider:
- SPQR EZ10 or
- regular BR (about 120-150 litres / 4.3-5.4cu ft. tuned to 40-45Hz)
enclosure for AN 10 CF - sims are quite promising,
and
- open-baffle,
- semi open-baffle (which I mean a regular box without or almost without back side)
- sealed stuffed enclosure (~150 litres / 5.4cu ft. stuffed in 50-80%)
enclosures for Alnico version.
I listen to acoustic jazz generally, rather small sets (solos, duos, trios) but I really like double-bass as a instrument (I really love it!) and it makes speakers bass response quite important.
If you have any sugestions or you can give me some advice about drivers, enslosures etc. they will be really appreciated.
Thanks in advance,
Maciek
P.S. Sorry for my english
I hope to improve it a little
Last edited:
Maciek:
Welcome to our crazy little corner of the world, and don't worry, your English is better than a lot of folks born and schooled in North America during the past 30yrs or so (my birth certificate puts me outside that particular demographic, but my prose often - not )
Mr Dicks might take some exception to the comments about CSA enclosure designs, but there certainly lots of other enclosure designs from which to choose.
I've very much liked the sound of several recent production alnico drivers by Fostex that I've heard, but the prices you're talking about for the upgrade from standard ceramic magnets certainly seem excessive. I know that I'd certainly want to hear the difference before pushing the go button at those levels - and that's the problem with lack of opportunity for direct audition.
It's always a leap of faith that any device actually meets published specs, and that other listener's impressions / descriptions (in the old days we'd be reading glossy print media) match what you'd experience.
I'm not familiar enough with any of the Audio Nirvana products to offer anything other than the encouragement that you've probably stumbled upon one of the more friendly and helpful forum communities extant.
best of luck
Welcome to our crazy little corner of the world, and don't worry, your English is better than a lot of folks born and schooled in North America during the past 30yrs or so
(my birth certificate puts me outside that particular demographic, but my prose often - not ) Mr Dicks might take some exception to the comments about CSA enclosure designs, but there certainly lots of other enclosure designs from which to choose.
I've very much liked the sound of several recent production alnico drivers by Fostex that I've heard, but the prices you're talking about for the upgrade from standard ceramic magnets certainly seem excessive. I know that I'd certainly want to hear the difference before pushing the go button at those levels - and that's the problem with lack of opportunity for direct audition.
It's always a leap of faith that any device actually meets published specs, and that other listener's impressions / descriptions (in the old days we'd be reading glossy print media) match what you'd experience.
I'm not familiar enough with any of the Audio Nirvana products to offer anything other than the encouragement that you've probably stumbled upon one of the more friendly and helpful forum communities extant.
best of luck
Hi!
You're certainly making a good choice with Audio Nirvana - they are good, very good, and second best only to Lowther.
I have a pair of 10 inch super A-N waiting for use . . . but having heard them out of their box just with a cushion to absorb some back wave, one can tell that they are SUPERB! As I normally play with 8 inch Lowther units, using the 10 inch means making a box especially for them rather than being able to try them in a pre-made box . . . and I have been intending to do something special with them.
As high efficiency is your aim and you like double-bass, I'd consider putting them in a nice rear horn and possibly positioning them in a corner. Horn loading means that your cone movement is minimnised which means that you don't get doppler distortion and other distortions are minimised too.
I have played with the 8 inch A-N units and they are excellent. Really whether there is much difference between the cast frame and standard . . . I'm not very sure.
A-N units don't suffer a high pitched scream as Lowther C series but the theory is that there is a void within the magnet assemnbly behind the voice coil which can resonate and that this is absent in AlNiCo magnet assemblies.
Best wishes
David P
In my case the choice was made for me. I traded a Fisher receiver for a pair of AN 10 Super Cast drivers. I mounted each driver in a cardboard box of about 3 cubic feet with a pillow inside each one. I am surprised how good they sound.
I decided on the EZ10. I haven't built any speakers in about 30 years or so, and the ones that I made then were during the disco era so there was only two criteria, they had to be loud, and they had to shake the house. I used 15 inch Eminence drivers fed with a few hundred watts of Carver or Phase Linear power.
After hearing some real nice sets of horn speakers including some real expensive Lowther based units, I decided that I wanted to build some. A few years went by and two different swap deals got me some drivers for zero dollars spent so I only have to buy wood. The AN drivers showed up here first so the EZ10's are nearly finished.
I also got a pair of Fe126EN's from Planet 10 with the full Enable treatment. They are going into Frugel Horn MKIII's for my next project.
I can report back when the EZ10's are done but I have too many projects and too little time right now so it might be early January before anything gets done.
Thanks for your replies and very nice reception.
I think that Super Cast version will be better for my 'fullrange start' as it's cheaper and more popular here which gives opportunity to share opinions with all of you.
It also seems that there are more different enclosures types to try (BR, horns, MLTL etc.)
But before I make my final decision I'd like to know if anybody here experienced Alnico version.
It's still in my mind as it is told to be better than CF version and to have better bass.
Regards,
Maciek
I think that Super Cast version will be better for my 'fullrange start' as it's cheaper and more popular here which gives opportunity to share opinions with all of you.
It also seems that there are more different enclosures types to try (BR, horns, MLTL etc.)
But before I make my final decision I'd like to know if anybody here experienced Alnico version.
It's still in my mind as it is told to be better than CF version and to have better bass.
Regards,
Maciek
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