Let me remind you, it was about "Tube sound". Do you mean that adding -80 dB of 2'nd only order distortions (i.e. 0.01% THD) to the amp that sounds "sterile morgue cold" on 40W power, and hear "Warm tube sound"? 😀
I suggest you to take a break from discussions and expeirment, to prove your discovery of the 21'St Century.
If BJTs caracteristics functions are not adapted , you can always
use lateral fets , and that s what i do generaly for performing
designs while using (darlingtons) BJTs for cheap "good enough" gears.
Using three parraleled devices (2J162/2SK1058) without source resistor allow
for almost a square law caracteristic.
I'm not interested in hi-fi. There, I've said it. 😀
I'm interested in music, the hi-fi is just a fun tool to get me there.
I'm interested in music, the hi-fi is just a fun tool to get me there.
Well my reality is all that matters to me.
It is not biased, I am about as neutral of a guy you're ever going to meet.
If you asked a hundred strangers to do test those exact items, I'm confident you will get the same results, hands down.
How come I can buy a 10watt SS guitar amp for $30 or a 10watt tube amp for $300??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Subjective drivel indeed, care to add anything to the conversation?
Saying SS sounds better, now that IS subjective drivel.
Talking about HiFi, ask ANY musician what type of amp they prefer, you will never hear SS.
In fact I can only think of ONE band, just ONE, who actually used SS amplification, that was Dimebag Darrel of Pantera, and they shot him.
So you could consider tubed music amps to be HiFi, because they reproduce the tones of the instruments naturally, musically.
You can't even give an SS amp to a serious guitar player.
It is not biased, I am about as neutral of a guy you're ever going to meet.
If you asked a hundred strangers to do test those exact items, I'm confident you will get the same results, hands down.
How come I can buy a 10watt SS guitar amp for $30 or a 10watt tube amp for $300??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Subjective drivel indeed, care to add anything to the conversation?
Saying SS sounds better, now that IS subjective drivel.
Talking about HiFi, ask ANY musician what type of amp they prefer, you will never hear SS.
In fact I can only think of ONE band, just ONE, who actually used SS amplification, that was Dimebag Darrel of Pantera, and they shot him.
So you could consider tubed music amps to be HiFi, because they reproduce the tones of the instruments naturally, musically.
You can't even give an SS amp to a serious guitar player.
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that was a fun read, nice to end a hectic weak with a thread like this - I guess when you throw in a hand grenade like the OP you gonna get some interesting posts 😀
p.s. I have no interest in hi-fi based on measurements since I have no means to do the level of measurements to the accuracy that I assume is being suggested here. And I doubt I'd enjoy the sound. I'll stick with DIY with a mix of engineering and the occasional drop of witchcraft thanks 😀
p.p.s. I like SS and tubes.
p.s. I have no interest in hi-fi based on measurements since I have no means to do the level of measurements to the accuracy that I assume is being suggested here. And I doubt I'd enjoy the sound. I'll stick with DIY with a mix of engineering and the occasional drop of witchcraft thanks 😀
p.p.s. I like SS and tubes.
It happens that i m also a musician , although not a guitarist....
Indeed, a guitar amp has nothing to do with hifi...
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It was more than one grenade. It was a bunch. 😀
I like it. Though, I worked as a firefighter, a bit. 😉
I agree with Pinkmouse. It's about the music.
Problem is, the appreciation of music is subjective. So some audiophiles will prefer a photograph, others a painting.
So the market is wide open......
Hugh
Problem is, the appreciation of music is subjective. So some audiophiles will prefer a photograph, others a painting.
So the market is wide open......
Hugh
Now we have had our fun, can we go back to our discussion in the other thread about sound vs. measurements?
on the other hand i'm largely in agreement here. Nature has a drop of magic we cant yet fully define, i like my tech to be the same
However
I cant say i'm with the program when it comes to removing many of the tools used in modern SS that are not available with tubes to level the playing field; so they can be said to produce equal measurements.
people have preferences, thats life and audio in particular.
Do solid state amps produce numbers (reflected in the waveform) closer to the ideal when allowed to use proper technique? absolutely they do and i believe they are also closer to what i would define as high fidelity. The problem is that many people have a completely different personal definition of what that phrase actually means, as opposed to the English definition
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I m afraid that "measurements" are no more a valuable way to compare amps
according to the usual "design by ear" afficionados , so only "sound" will remain
as a convenient spinning tool..
Depends. The numbers I gave were specifically responding to wahab's assertion that tube boxes of gain intrinsically added even order distortion at effects-box levels. There are other parameters to be considered, which I explain at length in the articles detailing the design of each of my components.
I would agree with Tim di Paravicini, a pretty good designer- one can make either tube or solid state gear that are transparent and indistinguishable.
Conclusion! Open a good bottle of redwine, Start your favorite music, Lean back and close your eyes and enjoy. The more you enjoy, The higher fidelity🙂
Funny, that is what I am doing right now, spinning vinyl.. My system is a mix of tube, solid state, and transformers (in both) sounds, hi-fi-ish to me, but more about the music.
No one has yet touched on the inherent linearity issues of speaker systems, since the levels of linearity of the electronics have been discussed.
Reading this thread brings back my memories when I believed that SS amplifiers had to have distortion numbers of less than .001 in order to be capable of being listened to and well tubes just weren't any good because they have more distortion. I went thru countless amplifiers before it finally dawned on me that what I really wanted was something that sounded clean and crisp and effortless. I've had my share of SAE's, Gas products, Marantz, Flame Linears, and I could continue the list. My home made Klipsch speakers measure far better than most of the expensive speakers and produce a signal nearly ruler flat when graphed. So with good speakers and good amplifiers not to mention good preamp I was always left with a feeling there was something out there that would satisfy my needs.
My needs were finally met with tube gear. Tube gear of less power than what I had used in the past. Tube gear that when it clips does so with grace and ease. Tube gear that will keep up with SS gear of approximately 4 times the power. Tube gear that well I would not have considered in my SS days.
To start a thread to "talk about HiFi" and totally dismiss tube gear is kind of like taking a wiz into the wind. Sooner or later you'll get wet. Some learn from this experience and well some can't.
My needs were finally met with tube gear. Tube gear of less power than what I had used in the past. Tube gear that when it clips does so with grace and ease. Tube gear that will keep up with SS gear of approximately 4 times the power. Tube gear that well I would not have considered in my SS days.
To start a thread to "talk about HiFi" and totally dismiss tube gear is kind of like taking a wiz into the wind. Sooner or later you'll get wet. Some learn from this experience and well some can't.
thats a whole other can of worms, then you have to take in VFB vs CFB because i understand that tubes without the use of transformers; which would swing in favor of SS as far as linearity, generally have DF that is orders of magnitude worse? i cant speak with any great authority there as i know neither lots about speakers or tubes
I too, am using far less power then I ever would have imagined.
Heck I could host a party or even PA a small venue with my modded Magnavox.
I think in it's most powerful pentode mode was still only around 30wpc.
It sounds facking HUGE. I have compared it directly with a 100wpc PA, not only did it "keep up" it left the SS "behind".
The SS PA started to sound really bad early on, it was a stroll in the park for my amp.
At any power level the tubes sounded better. Even the people that were with me are now believers.
Sure watts are watts, but you can't use the higher watts of an SS.
Heck I could host a party or even PA a small venue with my modded Magnavox.
I think in it's most powerful pentode mode was still only around 30wpc.
It sounds facking HUGE. I have compared it directly with a 100wpc PA, not only did it "keep up" it left the SS "behind".
The SS PA started to sound really bad early on, it was a stroll in the park for my amp.
At any power level the tubes sounded better. Even the people that were with me are now believers.
Sure watts are watts, but you can't use the higher watts of an SS.
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