Okay. I need another holiday from this forum. But As a parting gift, I’ll offer this:
If someone can so consistently, so successfully and so completely bring a forum into unproductive argumentation, pseudoscience, and navel-gazing about how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin, you have to consider whether that was not his intended purpose from the beginning.
If someone can so consistently, so successfully and so completely bring a forum into unproductive argumentation, pseudoscience, and navel-gazing about how many angels can dance upon the head of a pin, you have to consider whether that was not his intended purpose from the beginning.
Yes - Totally agree - It has become damaging to the health and harmony of this forum - I ignore generally, but some statements just get to me - how can this drivel be stopped ??
Chdsl, I'll be honest and say that I hit the ignore button to you, but I find myself hitting "show ignored content" just to see what everyone is replying to and I wish I didn't, as it is putting me off reading a great forum.
In general, I prefer to avoid any petty discussions, but they are starting to get a little bit toxic to the forum. On a positive note, I appreciated the input you have given to share patents with the forum and what seems on the face of it, a lot of your comments are well intended and I feel like you genuinely want to learn to make yourself a great DML speaker.
By all means, I am no expert on building a DML panel, and I have a great deal to learn from everybody within this forum. I enjoy reading about all the different experiences everyone has within the forum with their own builds. Each person within the forum have different expectations of what they would like to build, and we have to appreciate everyone's view point, even if we may not agree. Everybody within the forum wants to contribute something positive, and I genuinely believe that includes yourself. There is great discussions within the forum, but having an obsession with how amazing patents are will just lead you to disappointment.
Sure, there is a lot of amazing information in patents, and I plan on building a DML based on the Goebel patent, which is one of the patents that actually have decent information to build my own speaker. This patent is great at describing how the panel is built, but also throws a lot of red herrings with regard to the back panel, etc. But a great starting point for me to trial and test. But, the majority of patents are intentionally very vague in an attempt to stop anyone else from producing a DML speaker. Lets face it, there are very few companies selling DML speakers to the public and I believe that in some respects that vast majority of patents have ruined the possibility of different manufacturers from producing a DML speaker for risk of patent infringement. Your beloved NXT patents have not produced a DML speaker that has sold successfully in terms of a high end sound: I would like to be proved wrong though.
I certainly would not like you or anyone to leave this forum, but I would really appreciate if you can please show some respect to other members and contribute in a positive way, and for all of us to start a clean slate.
Peace out, apologies for the rant, but I feel I had to say something or else I would stop visiting this forum.
Chdsl, I look forward to your future positive contribution to the forum with respect to all members.
Thanks,
Mark
In general, I prefer to avoid any petty discussions, but they are starting to get a little bit toxic to the forum. On a positive note, I appreciated the input you have given to share patents with the forum and what seems on the face of it, a lot of your comments are well intended and I feel like you genuinely want to learn to make yourself a great DML speaker.
By all means, I am no expert on building a DML panel, and I have a great deal to learn from everybody within this forum. I enjoy reading about all the different experiences everyone has within the forum with their own builds. Each person within the forum have different expectations of what they would like to build, and we have to appreciate everyone's view point, even if we may not agree. Everybody within the forum wants to contribute something positive, and I genuinely believe that includes yourself. There is great discussions within the forum, but having an obsession with how amazing patents are will just lead you to disappointment.
Sure, there is a lot of amazing information in patents, and I plan on building a DML based on the Goebel patent, which is one of the patents that actually have decent information to build my own speaker. This patent is great at describing how the panel is built, but also throws a lot of red herrings with regard to the back panel, etc. But a great starting point for me to trial and test. But, the majority of patents are intentionally very vague in an attempt to stop anyone else from producing a DML speaker. Lets face it, there are very few companies selling DML speakers to the public and I believe that in some respects that vast majority of patents have ruined the possibility of different manufacturers from producing a DML speaker for risk of patent infringement. Your beloved NXT patents have not produced a DML speaker that has sold successfully in terms of a high end sound: I would like to be proved wrong though.
I certainly would not like you or anyone to leave this forum, but I would really appreciate if you can please show some respect to other members and contribute in a positive way, and for all of us to start a clean slate.
Peace out, apologies for the rant, but I feel I had to say something or else I would stop visiting this forum.
Chdsl, I look forward to your future positive contribution to the forum with respect to all members.
Thanks,
Mark
You can use EQ with your DML panels but EQ wont make a bad/horrible sounding panel into a good sounding panel. Your DML panels need to sound good to begin with EQ just helps you fine tune it more towards your taste.
Here is the same DML panel playing the same song but with EQ. The difference I hear is more bass more treble and more accurate sounding.
Here is the same DML panel playing the same song but with EQ. The difference I hear is more bass more treble and more accurate sounding.
After tests etc. I intend to make at least 2 complete prototypes of a tectonic-inspired project, from my experience the biggest problem I had to try at least how it went was to stabilize the 4 exciters on the back, from here I realize that to produce one in stable way I should make a real frame, the problem is that I can't afford to create the mold maybe in aluminum for this reason I have no idea how to proceed to create something serious that doesn't drive me crazy, in short, that is stable.A to tell the truth I don't know if it is the case that it is in metal or other, for this I accept suggestions
Thank you
Thank you
So Ichigo Bankai ...What is a DML mini tower comprised of ??? (and isn't it Ichigo's Bankai?)
Last edited:
All too complicated pixel1 - there are plenty of examples of timber frames here that will work fine - just bore holes in a spine to suit the diameter of your exciter/s and either silicone them in or pack them in with felt or foam .. or any other DAMPED method of fixing
I suggest stay right away from resonant materials like aluminium - resonance is not your friend in a frame/support.
Trial and error is a proven path to success
Eucy
Aluminium isn’t essential for an exciter frame, MDF or Ply would work just as well and can be machined at home using a router. Tectonic use an Aluminium casting because if you are making large numbers then the tooling cost is not high spread over many units and a casting itself is quick and cheap to produce. If you are not happy with routing it yourself the cost of CAD routing by a local machine shop would not be excessive and give you a great result.
If you are dead set on aluminium consider fabricating from Aluminium extrusions. I only use one exciter on a panel substantially larger than Tectonics and use an Aluminium extrusion for the exciter back brace. If you are concerned about stiffness you can epoxy two extrusions together to increase the thickness. As you are using four exciters you could start with an aluminium plate for the four exciter mounting points plus a couple of flat bar extrusions epoxied to the plate to connect to your frame and mechanically it would be the same as the Tectonic frame although you will have to think through the aesthetics a little .
You will see from the photos that I damp the Alu using vibration reduction pads as Eucy is right Alu will ring unless damped.
Burnt
Attachments
Last edited:
It sounds like you've got one mic pointing toward the speakers and the other pointing towards you.
What phone are you using?
Well, there's nothing much to learn from the oldsters here, who still in that large-panel-pushing-air stage. Some newcomers, especially @Sandasnickaren inspires me. I'm glad he came in with his finished project in reply to one of my posts. #8,070
Excellent, if they can direct you to the correct direction. Some people who shout I-know-the-science, better avoided.
This is more or less true. Have you noticed that all the patents from NXT and later from Tectonic on DML was written by Brits? Even, Azima is considered British, even though he was from Iran. Knowing that Brits are quite good at mudding the waters, you simply won't find everything in those patents, or you have to read many and make notes to compare. They simply keep certain facts out, quite subtly. One of the facts that had been missing or deliberately not written in most of NXT patents is shown on the excerpt in #9,183.
Sure, it is just his method of making a DML. Not much science in it, and he couldn't point to the NXT findings. I don't think you can find the words Distribution Mode in his patent. If you find that, I'd like to know, where that is. Thanks.
Regarding, "patents are intentionally very vague," that's absolutely true. The NXT patents are, might say, disliked for the mudding the water. There's actually only one company selling DMLs, calling them DMLs and that is Tectonic. And, even they didn't write their patent as an absolutely new invention, but as an Audio transducer stabilization system and method...Just another method like Göbel's.
When, NXT/HiWave/Redux companies were sold to US companies, the British government stepped in, so there must be some restrictions on intellectual property transfer still active, even though the British companies are long dissolved, and the patents are long expired. It is interesting that there are no patents registered on DML technology on flat panels since Henry Azima resigned from both NXT and Hiwave Technologies on 24 July 2007.
NXT existed until 29 October 2013 and HiWave until 10 December 2015.
Thank you for your concern. Respect is mutually earned. Some people don't know how to speak/write politely, so will not be replied. They are always on the warpath.
Now, I watch conversations on this and other matters concerning speakers somewhere else too. The politeness in those is unbelievable, maybe because most of them are active working scientists. Some of them have patents related to speakers, not the DML kind though. They are from many nationalities. There was once an interesting discussion about the making audio response measurements, which I related here. #9,092 If that's good for conventional speakers, why not for DMLs? You can understand why most of the audio response graphs here are practically useless.
(Sorry, link to those conversations will not be given.)
Last edited:
“Well, there's nothing much to learn from the oldsters here” 🤣 nice start and sums up what you are all about. I tried to write something fair, but you continually try to offend people and I would get banned if I said what I really would like to say.
Permanently ignored.
I’m out.
Permanently ignored.
I’m out.
Its nice, when people only read the first sentence, or just a part of it. Tells how much they'd get from a patent or a scientific document. 🙂
Anyway, NXT was only given/lent the knowledge from Defence Evaluation & Research Agency (DERA), which is a part of UK Ministry of Defence only to develop the technology for commercial use. Says something. Azima left in 2007 and no DML technology patents anymore. Azima never wrote anymore patents too. Food for thought.
Anyway, NXT was only given/lent the knowledge from Defence Evaluation & Research Agency (DERA), which is a part of UK Ministry of Defence only to develop the technology for commercial use. Says something. Azima left in 2007 and no DML technology patents anymore. Azima never wrote anymore patents too. Food for thought.
Last edited:
Another carpet video, but this one sounds very good. Well done Audiofrenzy. Are these mini towers single (FR) panels, or more than one panel per side? Single exciter per panel, or multiple exciters? And which are your favourite exciters?
Stimper,
I really liked what you had to say and your restraint. I don't know that I could have said it better. Please don't let one child spoil the dance. This is a good forum except for that one child who wants to ruin it for everyone else. Too bad that he didn't learn manners when he was growing up. My parents taught me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, so I'll be quiet now about him.
I really liked what you had to say and your restraint. I don't know that I could have said it better. Please don't let one child spoil the dance. This is a good forum except for that one child who wants to ruin it for everyone else. Too bad that he didn't learn manners when he was growing up. My parents taught me that if you can't say something nice, don't say anything at all, so I'll be quiet now about him.
Another American firm trying to make living off patents on flat panel speakers...with a patented motor, as they declare... 🙂
This kind of motors had been in certain Japanese speakers last few decades, I believe...
This kind of motors had been in certain Japanese speakers last few decades, I believe...
Last edited:
unless the regulator does something to put us all out of our misery, the only thing we can all do is put the offending person on ignore.
This way we do not have to listen to one person after another trying to reason with him.
Trying to reason with him just encourages him even more, to flood the pages with more drivel.
I wish there was another way , but I have also tried and failed.
Steve.
What we need to do is just pretend that he has not posted anything and nobody respond to anything he posts, good or bad. Maybe then he will go away. Maybe create a "patents" forum and automatically reroute his posts there. Being nice doesn't help. Neither does hitting him over the head with direct remarks.
The Thruster got hot! ????
I invited a couple of DIY Audio minded friends to movie night at my place last week.
I value their ability to hear things that might need attention or tweaking.
Those following this forum may remember that I use a Dayton Audio Thruster mounted to the back of my LG OLED TV as a center channel.
I had the home theater "humming" (used as an idiom in a positive way ;-) ... until we lost the center channel about midway through watching "Dune" at room shaking volumes.
It took a while to go through the audio chain and discover that we had blown out the center channel Thruster.
Before attaching a replacement exciter, I tested a small DML foam core panel (which also used a Thruster) I had in my shop to make certain everything would work.
It worked, but I noticed something odd, the Thruster got hot, not warm, hot. I checked the other Thrusters in the system (left, right, and rear surrounds). None of these ran hot at all.
While each speaker received different audio signals, I have all of them driven by the same amplifier modules.
I do have the "Trim" settings on my AV pre|processor dialed up on the center channel relative to my aluminum honeycomb main left & right channels. The aluminum DMLs have much higher output than the acrylic panel on the TV or the small DML foam core panel.
Could I have another, "about to fail" exciter?
Has anyone else noticed this?
Should I worry about it?
Any idea what would cause this?
Thoughts appreciated.
I invited a couple of DIY Audio minded friends to movie night at my place last week.
I value their ability to hear things that might need attention or tweaking.
Those following this forum may remember that I use a Dayton Audio Thruster mounted to the back of my LG OLED TV as a center channel.
I had the home theater "humming" (used as an idiom in a positive way ;-) ... until we lost the center channel about midway through watching "Dune" at room shaking volumes.
It took a while to go through the audio chain and discover that we had blown out the center channel Thruster.
Before attaching a replacement exciter, I tested a small DML foam core panel (which also used a Thruster) I had in my shop to make certain everything would work.
It worked, but I noticed something odd, the Thruster got hot, not warm, hot. I checked the other Thrusters in the system (left, right, and rear surrounds). None of these ran hot at all.
While each speaker received different audio signals, I have all of them driven by the same amplifier modules.
I do have the "Trim" settings on my AV pre|processor dialed up on the center channel relative to my aluminum honeycomb main left & right channels. The aluminum DMLs have much higher output than the acrylic panel on the TV or the small DML foam core panel.
Could I have another, "about to fail" exciter?
Has anyone else noticed this?
Should I worry about it?
Any idea what would cause this?
Thoughts appreciated.
Last edited:
Sure, why should anyone wants to know anything about new motors for DM panels, when they have round exciters?
Anyway, the suspect looks like this, or supposed to be...
And, the older Japanese motor for flat panels...
Has been used for few decades, they say...and, the composite panel can be less that A5...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Most exciters are just gadgets, sorry.
Anyway, the suspect looks like this, or supposed to be...
And, the older Japanese motor for flat panels...
Has been used for few decades, they say...and, the composite panel can be less that A5...
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
I suppose you should, >> #9,092
Most exciters are just gadgets, sorry.
Last edited:
Not a direct answer :
- Among the different threads I read on different forums, I remember posts about one specific exciter failure. Most probably on Talk Express DIY Flat Panel Speaker Love. I tried to find but with no success. Maybe somebody will have a better memory.
- Acrylic is I think the less efficient material among the common materials
- When you checked the output, is it the volumes setting or is it the voltage received? The idea behind my question is if a left or right channel receives X volts, how many volt on the central one?