I wonder what woofers could partner this tweeter noting that it could be used as low as 1 Khz, though personally 1200Hz could be better
Beyma TPL-200/B AMT Pleated Diaphragm Tweeter
https://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=TPL-200/B
Are there any 15" units out there that could be partnered with this driver?
PD153ER?
PD.153ER
Even this?
PDN.18BR40
I just fancy building a big two way
Beyma TPL-200/B AMT Pleated Diaphragm Tweeter
https://www.beyma.com/getpdf.php?pid=TPL-200/B
Are there any 15" units out there that could be partnered with this driver?
PD153ER?
PD.153ER
Even this?
PDN.18BR40
I just fancy building a big two way
What is interesting about the PDN.18BR40 is that it does seem to have an extended range, PD state that it has a smooth response allowing easy system integration, just wonder if it would stretch to 1.2Khz crossover 3rd order?
Off axis performance is not an issue in my application, as it will be used on axis.
Off axis performance is not an issue in my application, as it will be used on axis.
kec, should I buy the B102? I am inspired by your project. Anyone else have any opinions on the Eminence B102 plus a compression tweeter? I think this driver makes a good compromise between efficiency and bass extension. It’s also one of the few pro drivers with what appears to be a maneagable upper frequency response (as compared to a more typical peak).
Sorry 'zilla, just saw your post. I don't have the B102 I have the BP102. They are different and I think it gets mixed up in this thread. The BP102 is my current new favorite 10"
But how does the BP 102 SOUND compared to the Seas?
It seems to me that the reputation of Seas driver that it has a beautiful sounding midrange is being disregarded and that is the whole point of using them.That and the fact that you can use them with no crossover.
If the BP102 sounds anything like the similar drivers used in the Zu Audio speakers I would not be in any rush to use them.They sound pretty scratchy and coloured to me.
Bad paper driver sound versus good paper driver sound?
It seems to me that the reputation of Seas driver that it has a beautiful sounding midrange is being disregarded and that is the whole point of using them.That and the fact that you can use them with no crossover.
If the BP102 sounds anything like the similar drivers used in the Zu Audio speakers I would not be in any rush to use them.They sound pretty scratchy and coloured to me.
Bad paper driver sound versus good paper driver sound?
The BP102 is alive and dynamic, the Seas (A26RE4) is a bit dull. It (the Seas) is a good driver, but not that much better than most in it's price range. Well built and consistent. The Seas best quality is it does nothing really bad above 1,000 Hz or so, where most woofers of it's size have serious break up issues. And it is simple to use, as in little or no LP crossover requirements.
The Seas breakup is more pronounced that the published spec indicates, the BP102 breakup is less than what is published. Eminence has produced the BP for many years and sold tens of thousands of them. It has been slowly refined over the years, is very durable and very consistent. Always meets spec. (So does the Seas for that mater) The price is for the BP is less than half of the Seas. Other advantages the BP has is twice the efficiency, 50% MORE x-max, faster natural roll-off at a lower frequency & more than double the long term power handling. The BP works well in smaller, to much smaller boxes with fairly similar practical low end cut off. The Seas will play a bit lower, but in a ported alignment the box is huge.
To be honest, I am surprised at how good the BP is. It does require some more crossover work than the Seas, but with that work the BP can easily outperforms the Seas. Have used both in various systems. Most notably the Seas in my Widow Maker OB prototype demonstrated some time ago at LSAF.
The Seas breakup is more pronounced that the published spec indicates, the BP102 breakup is less than what is published. Eminence has produced the BP for many years and sold tens of thousands of them. It has been slowly refined over the years, is very durable and very consistent. Always meets spec. (So does the Seas for that mater) The price is for the BP is less than half of the Seas. Other advantages the BP has is twice the efficiency, 50% MORE x-max, faster natural roll-off at a lower frequency & more than double the long term power handling. The BP works well in smaller, to much smaller boxes with fairly similar practical low end cut off. The Seas will play a bit lower, but in a ported alignment the box is huge.
To be honest, I am surprised at how good the BP is. It does require some more crossover work than the Seas, but with that work the BP can easily outperforms the Seas. Have used both in various systems. Most notably the Seas in my Widow Maker OB prototype demonstrated some time ago at LSAF.
Have you used them in wide baffle/lossy boxes.
That is where I have heard the Seas sound extremely good.
The Devore Orangutan uses that arrangement-although it uses a slightly altered version of that driver.
The Devore Orangutan is VASTLY over rated. It lacks dynamics, clarity and when challenged with difficult, complex material, falls a part! I rarely speak ill of any speaker worth a damn, but this one I must. Especially when you look at it's ridiculous price! Auditioned them in private homes and at RMAF. The big Harbeth 40 series eats it's lunch. And I am no fan of that expensive speaker either.
Both of those designs play it safe.... afraid to offend and are boring because of it. Too bad. With some crossover work they could be a LOT better.
With the Harbeth, especially on vocals, you do have a sense of reality. Not the Orangutan. All you have to do is attend ANY live venue and then go listen to either of these. If you can't hear the difference... well...
Sorry to be so nasty... just tired of seeing these types of speakers being so highly rated. If they sold for one forth their price, I could be way more forgiving. But for half the price of a decent car, forget it!!
Both of those designs play it safe.... afraid to offend and are boring because of it. Too bad. With some crossover work they could be a LOT better.
With the Harbeth, especially on vocals, you do have a sense of reality. Not the Orangutan. All you have to do is attend ANY live venue and then go listen to either of these. If you can't hear the difference... well...
Sorry to be so nasty... just tired of seeing these types of speakers being so highly rated. If they sold for one forth their price, I could be way more forgiving. But for half the price of a decent car, forget it!!
I agree that they are overpriced but so are the Audio Notes which are somewhat similar.
Their appeal would seem be that they work well with lowish powered valve amps-especially SETs-whereas most speakers do not.Probably a case of two wrongs making a right [of sorts] but that type of speaker can sound pretty appealing in its own way.
The irony is both of these designs are woefully inefficient. Like 84 db/watt (0.15%) may be. No wonder they are are limited in dynamics. So much for compatibility with low powered SET amps and the like.
Yes, when you are milk toast, you offend few, but what is the point? Isn't music(s) life like and dynamic reproduction of the original event the goal? To make the most of a 5 watt, give or take SET, you need an operating efficiency of at least 90 dbw. Have I missed some thing?
Yes, when you are milk toast, you offend few, but what is the point? Isn't music(s) life like and dynamic reproduction of the original event the goal? To make the most of a 5 watt, give or take SET, you need an operating efficiency of at least 90 dbw. Have I missed some thing?
The DeVore Orangutan 0/96 has a measured sensitivity of 91db according to Stereophile.Way below the claimed 96db but still pretty efficient and the impedance does not drop below 8 ohms .Not sure where your 84db comes from?
agreed, heard the devore 093 and for the price, its imo not worth it at all. I also hear a lack of clarity. It sounds decent but not at all worth 7 to 10k. Much much much prefer harbeth which are indeed a bit polite but so far a good compromise for me
what commercial speaker you prefer over the harbeth 40.1? I'm looking at my option in either building a diy speaker kit to challenge my Harbeth's, or buy something commercial. if you have any hints? please pm me!
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Well the bottom line is that any two way will, at best ,sound decent rather than very good I have owned some pretty expensive ones that I described as exactly that.Good but not great.The Tannoy dual concentrics are probably still the pick of them all but they use large drivers and lower crossover points.
Mea culpa
A bit in too much a hurry with my last post.... (It was that Saturday evening glass of Chardonnay, Yeah, that's it!!)
The Harbeth 40 is really at 84 db/watt or so and the Devore O-93 is actually around 86-87 db/watt. Or about 0.15% - 0.20% and 0.30% - 0.35% respectively. The Devore is still 5-6 db less efficient than advertised. Just for the record, the larger O-96 actually comes in at around 90-91 db/watt or 0.65%-0.70%. Also 5 - 6 db/watt below advertised specs. This info is in line with various reviews and from personal experience. The above assumes typical half space setting with the speakers out from a rear wall 24"-36".
In a small room you can drive the Devore O-93 with 5 honest SET watts, but if you have much bass content, your pushing things. The larger 0-96 does better, but 5 watts would be a minimum even in a small room. Both benefit from more power and come to life with 25-50 watts available.
My Woefully inefficient remark was directed at the Harbeth 40 and the Devore O-93. I was not clear on that and apologize for that.
A bit in too much a hurry with my last post.... (It was that Saturday evening glass of Chardonnay, Yeah, that's it!!)
The Harbeth 40 is really at 84 db/watt or so and the Devore O-93 is actually around 86-87 db/watt. Or about 0.15% - 0.20% and 0.30% - 0.35% respectively. The Devore is still 5-6 db less efficient than advertised. Just for the record, the larger O-96 actually comes in at around 90-91 db/watt or 0.65%-0.70%. Also 5 - 6 db/watt below advertised specs. This info is in line with various reviews and from personal experience. The above assumes typical half space setting with the speakers out from a rear wall 24"-36".
In a small room you can drive the Devore O-93 with 5 honest SET watts, but if you have much bass content, your pushing things. The larger 0-96 does better, but 5 watts would be a minimum even in a small room. Both benefit from more power and come to life with 25-50 watts available.
My Woefully inefficient remark was directed at the Harbeth 40 and the Devore O-93. I was not clear on that and apologize for that.
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I'm very happy to have found this thread, it's title was covering over the true potential of it - as it seems to point the way to the build of a very rewarding 2-way speaker that could rival some well regarded commercial speakers. I've read it through only once but wasn't sure if a definitive recipe around the BP driver is quite there yet without a couple of finished XO examples for tweeters. I hope the thread continues on....
So, what are we looking for ?
A driver with a smooth rolloff above 1-2khz with no crossover parts needed ?
I'd think it will be tough for a larger driver to be as good as a smaller driver above 1khz, maybe lower.
Don't et me wrong, the b102 isn't as vocal clean as my 3 way thiels, but the b102 works as a very simple 2 way.
As a 92db option, perhaps 2 or the anarchy 6.5 - 7" (8 ohm around 86db each) for a 4ohm parallel load would be more detailed.
A driver with a smooth rolloff above 1-2khz with no crossover parts needed ?
I'd think it will be tough for a larger driver to be as good as a smaller driver above 1khz, maybe lower.
Don't et me wrong, the b102 isn't as vocal clean as my 3 way thiels, but the b102 works as a very simple 2 way.
As a 92db option, perhaps 2 or the anarchy 6.5 - 7" (8 ohm around 86db each) for a 4ohm parallel load would be more detailed.
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Norman.. are you talking about the B102 or BP102? Both are Eminence 10", but are very different.
B102.
I know they are not 10's but the pricier eminence delta pro 12a looks well behaved, as does the definimax 4012ho.
They roll past 2khz, higher than I'd like for a 12 to be run wide open.
I keep looking at diysoundgroups 12" tempest fusion or the zephyr using the definmax.
Denovo Audio Tempest-12
I know they are not 10's but the pricier eminence delta pro 12a looks well behaved, as does the definimax 4012ho.
They roll past 2khz, higher than I'd like for a 12 to be run wide open.
I keep looking at diysoundgroups 12" tempest fusion or the zephyr using the definmax.
Denovo Audio Tempest-12
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