I just can't leave well enough alone...
After enjoying the BP102 with the Dayton D250P/Pyle PH612 waveguide for a while, I decided to modify the mid/high end of the speaker. I read Adason's post on the Faital 6FE200 + Selenium ST200 and I decided to try it.
Adason's post is here: 6fe200 + ST200
And my post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/282141-6fe200-st200-4.html#post5310845
Here's my take on Adason's design. About the same volume as Adason's in a sealed sub-enclosure in a vented enclosure. Paired with my favorite 10" woofer - Eminence BP102.
The 6FE200 is an excellent sounding midrange. The ST200 adds a nice amount of sparkle, even though the sensitivity is much higher than the Faital. I've played around with the attenuation of the tweeter and do like it better toned down a bit. I have an L-pad on the ST200. Measurements attached.
After enjoying the BP102 with the Dayton D250P/Pyle PH612 waveguide for a while, I decided to modify the mid/high end of the speaker. I read Adason's post on the Faital 6FE200 + Selenium ST200 and I decided to try it.
Adason's post is here: 6fe200 + ST200
And my post: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/282141-6fe200-st200-4.html#post5310845
Here's my take on Adason's design. About the same volume as Adason's in a sealed sub-enclosure in a vented enclosure. Paired with my favorite 10" woofer - Eminence BP102.
The 6FE200 is an excellent sounding midrange. The ST200 adds a nice amount of sparkle, even though the sensitivity is much higher than the Faital. I've played around with the attenuation of the tweeter and do like it better toned down a bit. I have an L-pad on the ST200. Measurements attached.
Attachments
>>> Sorry 'zilla, just saw your post. I don't have the B102 I have the BP102. They are different and I think it gets mixed up in this thread. The BP102 is my current new favorite 10"...
Thanks kec! I’m glad you added a midrange driver. I purchased the Eminence CA10-8:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-4802--eminence-legend-ca10-8-specifications.pdf
Needless to say I returned it because it did not sound much different than the Eminence Beta 10A I already own... and struggle with sonically. I was told the CA10-8 is very similar to the BP102. The CA10-8 has very solid bass in a 2cf ported box. Problem was I have been listening to open baffles and H-frames for so long that I must have become very sensitive to the sound of the box. Compared to the OBs the music always sounded like it was coming out of a box. I redesigned the box placing the port on the rear which helped a lot but then I noticed another problem. Using the stock Eminence 1.6k crossover and an l-pad, I was never able to blend the woofer with the tweeter well enough to really enjoy music without noticing the dreaded crossover. I tried several waveguides and horns as well as the B&C DE250, Dayton D250 and Pyle PDS442. Honestly, I wasn’t sure if the objectionable sound came from the top end of the woofer, bottom end of the tweeter or the crossover? Regardless, at the moment anyway, I am relegating a 10” two-way as a “party speaker” rather than something to critically listen to.
Thanks kec! I’m glad you added a midrange driver. I purchased the Eminence CA10-8:
https://www.parts-express.com/pedocs/specs/290-4802--eminence-legend-ca10-8-specifications.pdf
Needless to say I returned it because it did not sound much different than the Eminence Beta 10A I already own... and struggle with sonically. I was told the CA10-8 is very similar to the BP102. The CA10-8 has very solid bass in a 2cf ported box. Problem was I have been listening to open baffles and H-frames for so long that I must have become very sensitive to the sound of the box. Compared to the OBs the music always sounded like it was coming out of a box. I redesigned the box placing the port on the rear which helped a lot but then I noticed another problem. Using the stock Eminence 1.6k crossover and an l-pad, I was never able to blend the woofer with the tweeter well enough to really enjoy music without noticing the dreaded crossover. I tried several waveguides and horns as well as the B&C DE250, Dayton D250 and Pyle PDS442. Honestly, I wasn’t sure if the objectionable sound came from the top end of the woofer, bottom end of the tweeter or the crossover? Regardless, at the moment anyway, I am relegating a 10” two-way as a “party speaker” rather than something to critically listen to.
Godzilla,
I think you are mainly a full range driver guy.
I think for your tastes, 6db time aligned would be the only option if you were curious to do multi-ways.
I think you are mainly a full range driver guy.
I think for your tastes, 6db time aligned would be the only option if you were curious to do multi-ways.
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D123-a have very nice mids - IIRC can be more vivid than the rather bland 12lta (both need tweeters) I like coaxial - inexpensive Eminence 12cx with 80oz magnets were pretty good - even the 109oz magnet 12cx with ~53g mms. Maybe an all-pass on the woofer.
B102 + Cat37-8 could be decent - mids aren't as fun as my Klipschorn's K400 on "A Gringo Like Me" like theater sound vs dry-"intimate" (B102/Cat378 lost some vibrant effect/"reverb" in Tevis' voice - the excitement was gone with B102/Cat378) - a 3 way full horn system might be pretty good
I had 4-A35xl Seas 10" fry in the mid 1970's when a Citation IV preamp was accidentally turned off before a Citation 12's shutdown. (Did the 12ax7 cascade pair exacerbate the turnoff pulse? - like a rise towards open loop gain ?)
B102 + Cat37-8 could be decent - mids aren't as fun as my Klipschorn's K400 on "A Gringo Like Me" like theater sound vs dry-"intimate" (B102/Cat378 lost some vibrant effect/"reverb" in Tevis' voice - the excitement was gone with B102/Cat378) - a 3 way full horn system might be pretty good
I had 4-A35xl Seas 10" fry in the mid 1970's when a Citation IV preamp was accidentally turned off before a Citation 12's shutdown. (Did the 12ax7 cascade pair exacerbate the turnoff pulse? - like a rise towards open loop gain ?)
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Yea, mids need a bit of help.
I don't trust many horns now, the live sound is usually reflections that I've had luck lessening with foam.
And corner, parallel wall, or angle break in the length causes reflections, or a "live" echo that should not be there.
Round smooth waveguides seem the best to me now (like the cat 378).
The 10", dispersion narrows a bit too much maybe to catch a 6db down tweet at 2khz.
I imagine a smaller driver would be more pistonic past 800hz.
I'm 7' away 45 degrees off axis and speaker needs to be turned at me a bit to sound better.
Maybe I'm getting too much looking into funnel between cone / woofer.
Or a funny antiphase thing going on.
On axis, no complaints, except me wanting tactile bass of a 2 x 15.
But it is a simple, time aligned, and rugged project that sounds really good.
Not tremendously cheap at 95 + 68 + cap + box + accoustuff.
Anyone know of a flat impedence 6.5" woofs flat to 2khz with 86db that i could use as a mtm for the morel ?
The audio anarchy looked like they could work.
Norman
I don't trust many horns now, the live sound is usually reflections that I've had luck lessening with foam.
And corner, parallel wall, or angle break in the length causes reflections, or a "live" echo that should not be there.
Round smooth waveguides seem the best to me now (like the cat 378).
The 10", dispersion narrows a bit too much maybe to catch a 6db down tweet at 2khz.
I imagine a smaller driver would be more pistonic past 800hz.
I'm 7' away 45 degrees off axis and speaker needs to be turned at me a bit to sound better.
Maybe I'm getting too much looking into funnel between cone / woofer.
Or a funny antiphase thing going on.
On axis, no complaints, except me wanting tactile bass of a 2 x 15.
But it is a simple, time aligned, and rugged project that sounds really good.
Not tremendously cheap at 95 + 68 + cap + box + accoustuff.
Anyone know of a flat impedence 6.5" woofs flat to 2khz with 86db that i could use as a mtm for the morel ?
The audio anarchy looked like they could work.
Norman
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I want to share a fellow countryman's design here:
Kaiutinrakennusohje Ref1, AudioVideo.fi:n referenssikaiutin | AudioVideo.fi
It's only in finnish, but maybe with google translate you can get something out of it.
It's called Ref1, because the author wanted a reference speaker for himself. Something that would be as neutral as possible, go low and not to be too easy load for testing amplifiers.
There's something in this design that appeals to me. It would be also a good excuse to build a powerful amplifier for these. But sadly I have no space to put these in... maybe one day I'll have a decent listening room that I can fill up with speakers 😀
Kaiutinrakennusohje Ref1, AudioVideo.fi:n referenssikaiutin | AudioVideo.fi
It's only in finnish, but maybe with google translate you can get something out of it.
It's called Ref1, because the author wanted a reference speaker for himself. Something that would be as neutral as possible, go low and not to be too easy load for testing amplifiers.
There's something in this design that appeals to me. It would be also a good excuse to build a powerful amplifier for these. But sadly I have no space to put these in... maybe one day I'll have a decent listening room that I can fill up with speakers 😀
Sorry to dredge up an old thread but I feel this ended in a cliffhanger. Did John Busch ever get the crossover figured for the BP102? And what box and tweeter is recommended? Some of us get curious...
the A26 issues are centered at 4khz, not 5khz.
I think the A26 woofer needs to be listened NOT on axis. The A26 without LP needs to be seen like a fullrange driver and listened off axis. That way, 5khz is 15 db down from 2khz, 20db down at 6khz compared to 2khz.
but even on axis, I dont understand how you reached that 6db down figure at 5khz vs 2khz. my measurements (and those from seas) shows that on axis, 5 khz is 12db down vs 2khz.
the issue on axis arise at 4khz, where on axis at 4khz we are barely -6db from 2khz, so 1st order roll off. however, off axis of about 25/30 degree, this easily tame the 4khz break up and its down 10db at 4khz vs 2khz.
A fascinating design read the article (google translated) and it is promising wonder if anyone else has built them?
L26ROY D1001
Indeed. I did the same. One thing that suprised me was the 500 euro price for the whole thing...or was that per speaker? Since the L26ROY's cost around 270 a piece.
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Not sure what you’re talking about here.......that bump at 3.8khz is barely a blip on a radar relative to the fundamental and hardly constitutes calling it a breakup. Listening off axis won’t make a difference......at that point the tweeter is near Omni and a summed response and the phase wrap is minimal.
500€/speaker. I have never understood this passive speaker - 85dB/W with a compression driver in a horn... The only good thing is bass extension down low. Double L26ROY sealed and active would be more balanced, but more expensive too.
Peerless SLS 10" (90€) with some mid-price 1,5" tweeter would be a better passive match for a clone of A26.
Peerless SLS 10" (90€) with some mid-price 1,5" tweeter would be a better passive match for a clone of A26.
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