If you decouple the driver from the box all of the reactive energy has to be disapated by the mass of driver. This reduces DDR of the system.
A system like used by The FUJITSU Ten Eclipse where the egg shaped “box” is free flosting anf the driver is anchoured to a massive stand.
dave
Interesting topic, and I admire what you are trying to diy/do. There is certainly a point to be made for decoupling speakers (the box/enclosure) from the surface or floor, and there are many commercial products available to achieve this. Some very expensive offerings too. Snake oil? Maybe. I link to a few.
But I can only speak from personal experience. For my diy floorstander MLTL speakers (with full range drivers) I specially ordered some fancy looking Parts Express speaker spikes. Unfortunately they did not work for me. We have a slighly uneven ceramic tile floor and I often move the speakers around slighly to play with, and adjust the sound stage and sweet spot. I could never get the darn spikes to stay rigid and the speakers to stop wobbling ever so slightly. I guess spikes work much better on a very smooth concrete floor or carpet.
Anyway, I stumbled upon discussions about speaker isolation feet and it seemed that it could be beneficial and a possible solution to my problem. I then stumbled upon a thread on a post in this forum (and I simply cannot find the thread anymore) where a member placed studio monitors on thick pieces of polystyrene and how amazed he was at the improvements in the sound. I subsequently sourced 30mm thick EVA foam pads, removed the spikes and placed my speaker boxes on the foam pads. Never looked back. Could not care if it looks funny. Not only did it solve my speaker wobbling problem - it is easy to move my speakers around and I can certainly hear an improvement in the sound. Placebo effect? Maybe, but I sleep much better now.
https://isoacoustics.com/home-audio...KFzJHzAiXHJOHuiam256zITL7cMr1jZ8aApXhEALw_wcB
https://townshendaudio.com/hi-fi-home-cinema-vibration-isolation-speaker-podiums/
Folks, I just came across this thread, and I think I have something of interest. I actually measured speaker isolation, and proved that it is not needed or useful as long as the speaker is competent. Meaning the speaker is sufficiently massive and rigid to not flex, as with normal decent speakers This article is pretty long and detailed, but it explains the issues completely, and also explains why so many people believe isolation is useful:
http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm
http://ethanwiner.com/speaker_isolation.htm
It came supplied with a bicycle pump, seriously! It needed only attention a few times in a year. Basically, folded mild steel sheets enveloped bicycle tubes.
If the whole 'egg' is reacting cleanly like a dipole, probably 40dB below the direct sound from the driver, then AFAICT that could be a good solution, if well implemented.
An optimal, but impractical, solution could be to use a single spike with the speaker perfectly balanced on top, minimising any up-down forces imparted into the floor. Failing that, rotate the square footing to make it a diamond. The side feet would carry the load, while the front/rear feet would use some decoupling technique, and are only there to maintain balance, not to spread the load.
But those are simply foot! What's isolation got to do with those? Do you know the term isolation, decoupling ?
an optimal and simple solution is to eliminate the contact. That applies to every piece of the system
I remember that decades ago, some placed their speakers on tennis balls, later squash balls. Was usefull in older houses with wood floors, cheap and efficent to reduce floors from resonating. As I'm always sceptical, while maybe reducing the bass traveling into other rooms, I did not agree on huge sound improvements. If such are fellt for the listener, a part of the effect may be the elevated position of the tweeter/ midrange.
Anyway, a cheap and very rationale idea for own experiments.
Speakers on desks and sideboards in professional studios are usually placed on some foam spacer. Prices at pro shops are very reasonable, no HIFI snake oil surcharge.
Anyway, a cheap and very rationale idea for own experiments.
Speakers on desks and sideboards in professional studios are usually placed on some foam spacer. Prices at pro shops are very reasonable, no HIFI snake oil surcharge.
The fact is that no-one really tries to make a real suspended speaker and each speaker decoupled by the other by the means of rubber bands ( the one you find at a knit shop ?!) so I see people living on assumptions, probabilities, followed by negationism etc .
The fact that this is the only improvement that will travel most of the non-deaf into another world is not well comprehended. That step is necessary- together with the total abandon of measurements - to enter in a new world . Same-same but different!
The fact that this is the only improvement that will travel most of the non-deaf into another world is not well comprehended. That step is necessary- together with the total abandon of measurements - to enter in a new world . Same-same but different!
It's obvious you didn't read the article, or maybe you didn't understand it? Here it is again in two sentences: A competent loudspeaker is massive and rigid enough to not vibrate or flex, so there's no vibration to begin with and any decoupling is unnecessary. All of the acoustic output from a competent loudspeaker is from its cone motion, and none from cabinet vibration.
Why should it be unnecessary ? Because you say so? Have you tried the opposite, i.e. total decoupling ? I'm asking...
Moreover, I have read the article ( it's made by you, a little bias?!) but you haven't read my previous two lines !
Moreover, I have read the article ( it's made by you, a little bias?!) but you haven't read my previous two lines !
@picowallspeaker
At this point the burden of proof is on you. I'll be glad to see your with and without response and waterfall graphs.
At this point the burden of proof is on you. I'll be glad to see your with and without response and waterfall graphs.
Looking forward to the data demonstrating the percentage of available product meeting the 'competent' qualifier. In my experience outside of premier models it's rare and trivially confirmed with a hand on a side wall.
The obvious conclusion is footers then are beneficial for the wide range of 'incompetent' speakers?
Except, as link the earlier showed, competent speakers with inaudible levels of cabinet radiation are also likely to be passively isolated from the supporting structure (wall, desktop or whatever) by people one might expect to know what they are doing. So have the relevant quantities been identified and measured? If a speaker with inaudible levels of cabinet radiation is placed on the floor, bolted rigidly to a wall or placed on a desk might something other than the cabinet radiate unwanted sound?
Honestly don't see the relevance of adding "if competent user" to "if competent speaker". Regarding the last question, judging from personal experience with tuba playing and singing neighbours in wood structures, yes.
The speaker cone and the box are 180° out of phase, at least at low enough frequencies that the sound propagation through the box materials doesn't cause significant lag.
I did exactly that back in the late 70's/very early 80's to isolate a midrange/tweeter cabinet from the transmission line bass cabinet (all self built around KEF drivers). It seemed like a really good idea at the time. But it sucked the soul out of the music. I screwed the two together. Problem sorted.
Anyway, it really goes to show that there is nothing really novel left in isolating loudspeakers from floors, or drivers from cabinets for that matter.
Although I have a friend who cut holes in the wooden floor, and built brick piers upward from the ground (he owned the house, so no problem), and put his speakers on the piers. Bye bye wooden floor problems.
I agree. Seismic Sink works better for kit isolation. Most of my career was spent in Japan (importing Ruark speakers was one of my gigs) and to place speakers on tatami mat I made plinths from 10mm tempered glass secured with thick double sided carper tape in an 18mm x 2 MDF sandwich. Repeat plinth orders from customers proved their efficacy.
With my experience of earthquakes, I'm working on a technique to feedback the energy from the speaker unit's rear back to the baffle. The theory is by directing the energy to the baffle, before emanating to the cabinate walls in combination with the waves of air hammering the enclosure walls, the tranducers get to do thier business better. The science is called Single Degree of Freedom [https://www.terrysweb.link/audio/loudspeaker].
Hey! It's a 1 week thread and it's already 3K views
And I fear I know the reason why...
You can go on with anectones...anectodes...whatever
I posted the link of the model to be copyed, that's all from me!
Btw about competently done LS ...steel...err, no, lead! Yeah, lead sheets...make a research around here, maybe it's me recommending them
Bye!
And I fear I know the reason why...
You can go on with anectones...anectodes...whatever
I posted the link of the model to be copyed, that's all from me!
Btw about competently done LS ...steel...err, no, lead! Yeah, lead sheets...make a research around here, maybe it's me recommending them
Bye!