I got a laugh when @anatech said $3k for s/w was expensive or not worth it? When I did pcb at HP, the CCT SP55 router alone was $50k. This was in 1994?
My first ecad work station was a Cadnetix (Sun), Unix . It’s quiet the history. It’s a different discussion for another thread. Happy new year folks.
My first ecad work station was a Cadnetix (Sun), Unix . It’s quiet the history. It’s a different discussion for another thread. Happy new year folks.
This is a seriously good result
I have a 401 and in loop back am now not getting better than -98dB distortion despite the -108 dB spec. I’ve probably damaged the input attenuators.
I see in your plot the x-axis is input level. Is there an explanation for why it increases rapidly below about -15 dB? Is this generator or A-S related?
Nice initiative BTW - thanks for this.
I have a 401 and in loop back am now not getting better than -98dB distortion despite the -108 dB spec. I’ve probably damaged the input attenuators.
I see in your plot the x-axis is input level. Is there an explanation for why it increases rapidly below about -15 dB? Is this generator or A-S related?
Nice initiative BTW - thanks for this.
Hi Rick,
I agree with you under those circumstances. Scopes are over 1/2 a million as well today, same with spec ans. But you were using vastly more complicated software.
Instrument control software is simple simon comparatively. No new frontiers here, nothing earth shattering here. The hardware is a known quantity, so not much to take into account. That and commercial software is overpriced as we all know. The reason is instant support requirements and exposure to lawsuits.
We are really talking about a glorified sound card here, yes is has calibration and is really good. Like a real instrument it has really good input protection, but controlling it is very similar to controlling a sound card. It just ain't that complicated.
As I said earlier, we saved machine states and recalled them in sequence to make a test procedure. That's a batch file folks. Easy. It just looks pretty. Same as finding auto levels, branches in the program, if-then-else, or do-while.
I agree with you under those circumstances. Scopes are over 1/2 a million as well today, same with spec ans. But you were using vastly more complicated software.
Instrument control software is simple simon comparatively. No new frontiers here, nothing earth shattering here. The hardware is a known quantity, so not much to take into account. That and commercial software is overpriced as we all know. The reason is instant support requirements and exposure to lawsuits.
We are really talking about a glorified sound card here, yes is has calibration and is really good. Like a real instrument it has really good input protection, but controlling it is very similar to controlling a sound card. It just ain't that complicated.
As I said earlier, we saved machine states and recalled them in sequence to make a test procedure. That's a batch file folks. Easy. It just looks pretty. Same as finding auto levels, branches in the program, if-then-else, or do-while.
You want a race against the UPV? It has a scrub wheel that enables you to tweak numerical values in realtime. As standard, THD+N is -113dBV via B1 (analogue osc) option – but an external oscillator (I use 2722) takes it down to -115. The realtime 20Hz to 20KHz feature of the UPV is a sucker punch, enabling you to compare 2 channels over any range. It’s super useful for checking L / R matching on pots (for example) or seeing how parts of a filter are working in realtime, checking EQ curves etc. I’ve demoed the 555 and see no feature that compares in terms of usefulness and worry that the 555 will not replace the UPV (it hasn't for my friend who owns several of each). The UPV also labels each harmonic in a THD+N plot and you can position the cursor on each harmonic for info in realtime. R+S were still servicing the UPV last time I checked (June, when one of ours went there) and you can buy about 4 of them s/hand for the price of a 555. Firmware is available FOC on the R+S site.
I’d like to buy a 555 and can put it down as a business expense. Aside from the 4dB THD+N improvement over my 2722 (it’ll do -116 once warmed up), the only argument I can see for buying the 555 is that I can post photos of it next to our products on the company Instagram. The batch testing macros are great, but I can get that with the 516B for 4x less cost. Were we to enter the DAC arms race, we could rent a 555 to spec our design (as well as using other gear, a-la Cosmos for R+D). We have no plans to compete with Okto or Topping.
I have terrible G.A.S in general and buy test gear on impulse. The 555 gives me no G.A.S. If it did, I’d have bought it. Were R+S to release a successor to the UPV (I doubt it would be cheaper than a 555), that would give me G.A.S (assuming it's made in Germany and firmware updates appear FOC, not as a yearly cost – that is an obnoxious business model for a firm that you’ve already paid $40K to). Sadly, I suspect that there is more chance of scientists genetically recreating the Dodo than R+S making a successor to the UPV. I don’t like the concept of increasing the price, discontinuing servicing on previous model and then offering the previous price if you hand over the old HW either. The glib joke posted on AP’s IG, where the dinosaurs (next to 2700 models) are about to get hit with asteroids has poor optics IMO. They should have employed someone with PR skill before posting that.
You really seem to have a strange definition of usability of a system or software. Usability is important for everyday expert users because that is where the beef is, whereas only few care about how long some random noobs need to figure it out because that is completely irrelevant in practice, covering only a few ppm of the total usage the software/system will see.
@Bonsai, hi, did you turn the noisy lights off? Even on my Amber 3501, turning the fluorescent lamps off reduced my measurements in the order of a few dB down in the -90,-100 range.
Bob C. said the same to me about turn off his lights during his qa403 evaluation. Or running on the incandescents. I replied another option, use a old magnetic ballast/choke/starter/T8 🙂
Bob C. said the same to me about turn off his lights during his qa403 evaluation. Or running on the incandescents. I replied another option, use a old magnetic ballast/choke/starter/T8 🙂
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Oh, I'm sure. I just haven't bothered. I really only use Windoze when I need to use the AP and while ALT-F4 is handy, a click on the X in the upper right is pretty easy to do as well.
I've never gotten used to the Windoze keys either. They're just not my thing. I've never needed them.
Don't even get me started on Altium! It offers no fewer than three (3) ways to open a file. They're all within the File menu (or top ribbon icons). They will all open the same file but they produce three (3) different results. It drives me absolutely mad! That's not a cheap piece of software either. Multi-kilobuck per year licence fee.
Cadence bought OrCAD where as Protel became Altium. I've used all three. OrCAD 9.x was actually pretty good. It had many quirks, but I've designed many, many boards with that. I've laid out quite a few boards with Protel Autotrax under DOS as well.
I probably (mis-)typed Cadence because I was traumatized in the IC design world where we used Cadence's IC design tools. We had an entire group within the company whose job it was to make the tool work well for us IC designers. It was still a very complicated piece of software with other complicated software on top for revision control and such. I'm pretty sure the licence fees were in the five digits per seat per year.
This reminds me. I should make my yearly donation to KiCAD.
Tom
I agree with that. I think it's really unfortunate that the software isn't at the same level of awesomeness as the hardware.
Tom
First double check whether you are looking at THD or THD+N.
I'm guessing the "it" you're referring to is the THD plotted on the graph. I'm thinking the harmonics are below the noise floor up to a generator level of -15 dBV, so the QA thinks the noise is harmonic distortion.
An unfortunate thing about how the QA measures distortion is that it uses the FFT but does not use averaging, so the noise level can be a bit high in the measurements.
Tom
He told me the same thing. He must have really noisy lights. He did further explain that he's seeing some hash around 50 kHz from the SMPS in LED/CFL bulbs and such in his measurements. That would not have shown in my measurements as I measured with 22 kHz BW (48 kHz sampling).
I have a Nora 4' linear LED light about 4-5' above the lab bench. I also have a desk lamp with an LED bulb in it that generally sits ~50 cm above the circuit that I'm measuring. I don't recall ever seeing any impact of those in my measurements, but I also tend to measure with 20 kHz BW. But I do on occasion measure up to 80-90 kHz and very occasionally maybe 200 kHz bandwidth.
Tom
Bad news for EU customers. The QA403 is sold out again. Will they be transported on the Titanic?
https://www.elektor.de/products/quantasylum-qa403-24-bit-audio-analyzer
https://www.elektor.de/products/quantasylum-qa403-24-bit-audio-analyzer
Definitely THD only!
Re the averaging, can you not set it in the PC dialog? I can set it on the 401 from 1 (no averaging) to 50.
Huh?
I paid for the Arta license. Anything I find useful and use I will pay for gladly.
Too bad Ivo won't continue. If he came out with enhancements I would donate.
I paid for the Arta license. Anything I find useful and use I will pay for gladly.
Too bad Ivo won't continue. If he came out with enhancements I would donate.
ARTA was released as freeware on Dec. 8 if memory serves. About three weeks ago anyway.
Tom
You can, but it's ignored by the automated test.
Tom
March last year, ARta closed in April. I sent Ivo an email to thank him for the nice software.
I use it a lot with my RTX, MI is more complicated to set up for simple tasks, so I use ARTA for quicky testing.
I use it a lot with my RTX, MI is more complicated to set up for simple tasks, so I use ARTA for quicky testing.
KiCAD it is. I made the transition about a year ago but not after making the air around me blue for a few weeks. The KiCAD user forum proved invaluable https://forum.kicad.info/ and I wouldn't even look at anything else now. Still a lot to learn and I have to transition to the latest version (I'm on V7).
Hi, yes, I have one of those ultra-bright fluorescents - I have to turn it off for decent results and I also run my PC off battery when doing measurements. I had the 401 running very well (used it to characterize the noise on the X-Altra MC/MM phono amp thingy down to -135 dBV). I've done a lot of power amp testing since then and I believe I've damaged it. I'll open it up this week to take a look because I have the new line preamp to characterise.
I get a hash at about 16kHz - I believe that's associated with the LCD refresh on the laptop. Usually I can suppress it by moving the PC and keeping the input and output cable loops small.