Whatever gets one off (pun intended) I guess is the general rule of thumb!
May I ask what DAC’s are those?
Intrigued by the idea, but every time I have tried I have not been happy with the sound. But both those DACs were weakass SS with OS opamps.
That is not a serious question. I believe ggetzoff’s point is that the F4 delivers the goods and some mo’ into difficult loads, and that for his listening habits it is enough.
To each his own.
Well, it’s very likely around that much power. The vast majority of the time I listen to flea power, with no desire for more power.
Remember, Nelson named the business for a reason: the importance of that first watt Also, it turns out that most of time you don’t need more than that.
Over the years I’ve seen a lot of plans and a lot of calculations that were overkill.
Remember, Nelson named the business for a reason: the importance of that first watt Also, it turns out that most of time you don’t need more than that.
Over the years I’ve seen a lot of plans and a lot of calculations that were overkill.
Wonder what amp will sing best with todays aquisition.
Thanks to MZM!
Boxes next, new tweeter assembly. Jumping on an adventure long known but the Mighty one gave me the final push, and in fact found them on a Norwegian site (MZM with many unknown qualities, omnilingual
)
Finally no worries about how to spend the excess time during paternity leave gome March 🙂
One step closer to audiophile retention
Thanks to MZM!
Boxes next, new tweeter assembly. Jumping on an adventure long known but the Mighty one gave me the final push, and in fact found them on a Norwegian site (MZM with many unknown qualities, omnilingual
)Finally no worries about how to spend the excess time during paternity leave gome March 🙂
One step closer to audiophile retention
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It is very serious and based on my experience.
I don't understand what kind of "listening habit" would be satisfied with such low volume.
When I first got the F4, I had it hooked up to a pair of 85db/w, 6 ohm, speakers. From a scale of 1 to 10, I'd say it got to 7. An extremely good 7, mind you. It would do Perry Como and Frank Sinatra extremely well, but it just didn't get loud enough... we could still talk over the music easily, in normal tones. I had the amp playing Christmas music ( the cool kind, jazzy, etc...) on Tidal HiFi for hours... in the living room, while we were making dinner.. and it was sounded extremely nice.
Meaning, the music was just barely above background... excellent background, but just so.
And this was with a preamp that delivers the full 20V.
I also have one of them Rat Shack power meters, it is fairly accurate. Actually, I got two of them... and both correlated with each other. The meters were showing the amp was pushing out more than 20 wpc peaks. And I could hear the voices get strained... a clear sign that the amp was reaching its limits ( the preamp still had more gain to go ).
Hence, I don't understand what type of music listening can be done with a low efficiency, low impedance, current handling speaker at 2 watts. Recall, that low efficiency, low impedance speakers pretty much describe the Maggies and I can tell you they barely move with a single F4 driven by a 20V source.
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Hmm... but low efficiency, low impedance, current hungry speakers are about the First Hundred Watts... not the First Watt. Nelson will happily sell you the Xs300 for such speakers. ( Note, if I could afford them, I'd be running the 20s, how about four Xs300 into 30.1? )
To give you an idea.... watching the power input of my speakers... whereas my more efficient ( 90 and 92 db/w ) speakers will sink one or two watts at sane levels, the Maggies will draw 10 watts and that's just to wake them up. I have tried stuff like a Marantz 2325 (125w), Sansui G7500 (90wpc), Nuforce STA200 (70wpc), etc.. and they all cried wolf! Only the A5s were able to drive them reasonably.. and only a CJ MF2100 (200w) and A2 (200w) can drive them to satisfying levels.
( Try Carole King, You Got A Friend... not a particularly loud song... ).
It's actually scaring watching the lights of the Big Marantz dim when a bass whack comes along.. And this receiver has a big power supply and was recently fully rebuilt.
So, I know power (current) hungry speakers will tax amplifiers just to get them moving. Even supposedly powerful amplifiers.
That's the whole point of my current endeavor and why I got the F4, and now want dual F4s. To build two sets of speaker/amp chains in my main stereo.. one for Maggie ( 200 wpc currently ) and one of 20 wpc or so... ( OK, so I am cheating a bit with the second F4 and balanced preamp... but that's because the high efficiency speakers I run can actually handle lots of power too...).
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I guess what it comes down to is that nothing is wrong: what makes you happy, just do it: we got soldering irons and solder, and for most of these circuits: that’s about what we need to do whatever the heck we want, iot please the beast (ourselves). If getzoff is happy with 1-2 watts, let him. Of you need 100-200, so be it. Ain’t nobody gonna be the judge of that. My only sentiment is there are few absolutes in this hobby.
Wonder what amp will sing best with todays aquisition.
Thanks to MZM!
Boxes next, new tweeter assembly. Jumping on an adventure long known but the Mighty one gave me the final push, and in fact found them on a Norwegian site (MZM with many unknown qualities, omnilingual
Finally no worries about how to spend the excess time during paternity leave gome March 🙂
One step closer to audiophile retention
I see a particularly good British speaker in the background... I am very jealous.
What are those speakers in the foreground?
When it was my turn, we didn't get paternity leave.
in background - that's "particularly good British speaker", fancy one
in foreground, that's a pair of "particularly good British speaker", not fancy one
when properly made, later ones will run in circles around fancy ones
in foreground, that's a pair of "particularly good British speaker", not fancy one
when properly made, later ones will run in circles around fancy ones
OK, I have heard the background speakers... they sounded extremely good with a SE 300 amp.
What are the foreground speakers? I asked... can you please give me an answer, not riddle me?
Ay! Time to make some Mediterranean olive stuffed Pacific NW cold water oysters for dinner, I hope I didn't run out of Panko.
Thanks.... wow... what a price difference. I saw the pair from Norway at $500, the ones in the US are priced at $2200.
Must admit I have not been following those that close. With the exception of mini monitors, speakers are pretty expensive to ship across the ocean.
Anthony Cordesman wrote in TAS:
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/pass-xs-preamp-and-xs-300-mono-power-amplifiers/
"As you might expect, the Xs also pushes the limits of its components and circuit design well beyond the capabilities of the Pass XP-30 preamp I use as a reference (along with the EMM Labs Pre-2 preamp). The noise floor is an incredibly low -122dBV. The Xs retains the features of the XP-30, but has more output and can swing enough voltage to drive a balanced follower output at 150 watts rather than 80 watts. There are three advanced power supplies, and they drive what are the equivalent of dual-mono, gold-plated ceramic circuit boards."
I suppose I'm missing something... the BA3 balanced will also drive a pair of F4s to 150 watts.... is this a big deal? Did Wayne do something very special?
So. now I'm wondering. Given the highest quality components and additional power filtering... how good will the balanced BA3 based preamp be?
I know that given a really nuts bill of materials, the Pearl 2 is outright incredible.... I can tell you that it has no noise.... in my component chain: Pearl 2, CJ PV9 and F4, I hear no noise coming out of the system. My belief is that the tubed PV9 is the noisiest component in the chain, yet it is very quiet... so I figure a BA3 driving the F4 will be an even quieter combination... capable of driving LOTS of power...
This is not to deride the Xs preamp... I'm sure it sounds fantastic... my local dealer won't carry Pass anymore, I don't know why, so I doubt I'll ever hear it nor be able (and allowed) to buy one.... but I'm wondering how good can the basic BA3 preamp be made with attention to the BOM... and how good will the set up sound when I get it all set up with a pair of F4s...
This is getting fun.
Come to think about this... I need to apply for a job at the Pass Factory... like Nelson my background is in Physics... I can write awesome firmware for those displays and all I need is a little bit of money and the employee discount on products. Unlike Boeing, were we engineers didn't get a discount on a 747VIP, I figure Pass will be like Cisco where we got am 80% discount. I believe I can swing the $30K for the Xs preamp and Xx300 amps... now the problem will be upgrading the house to drive them... will a 300A panel be enough?
OP.... if you build the BA3 preamp for your F4... make sure to open your wallet to the BOM.
https://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/pass-xs-preamp-and-xs-300-mono-power-amplifiers/
"As you might expect, the Xs also pushes the limits of its components and circuit design well beyond the capabilities of the Pass XP-30 preamp I use as a reference (along with the EMM Labs Pre-2 preamp). The noise floor is an incredibly low -122dBV. The Xs retains the features of the XP-30, but has more output and can swing enough voltage to drive a balanced follower output at 150 watts rather than 80 watts. There are three advanced power supplies, and they drive what are the equivalent of dual-mono, gold-plated ceramic circuit boards."
I suppose I'm missing something... the BA3 balanced will also drive a pair of F4s to 150 watts.... is this a big deal? Did Wayne do something very special?
So. now I'm wondering. Given the highest quality components and additional power filtering... how good will the balanced BA3 based preamp be?
I know that given a really nuts bill of materials, the Pearl 2 is outright incredible.... I can tell you that it has no noise.... in my component chain: Pearl 2, CJ PV9 and F4, I hear no noise coming out of the system. My belief is that the tubed PV9 is the noisiest component in the chain, yet it is very quiet... so I figure a BA3 driving the F4 will be an even quieter combination... capable of driving LOTS of power...
This is not to deride the Xs preamp... I'm sure it sounds fantastic... my local dealer won't carry Pass anymore, I don't know why, so I doubt I'll ever hear it nor be able (and allowed) to buy one.... but I'm wondering how good can the basic BA3 preamp be made with attention to the BOM... and how good will the set up sound when I get it all set up with a pair of F4s...
This is getting fun.
Come to think about this... I need to apply for a job at the Pass Factory... like Nelson my background is in Physics... I can write awesome firmware for those displays and all I need is a little bit of money and the employee discount on products. Unlike Boeing, were we engineers didn't get a discount on a 747VIP, I figure Pass will be like Cisco where we got am 80% discount. I believe I can swing the $30K for the Xs preamp and Xx300 amps... now the problem will be upgrading the house to drive them... will a 300A panel be enough?
OP.... if you build the BA3 preamp for your F4... make sure to open your wallet to the BOM.
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I'm not driving Maggies, so THAT is the difference; The Magnepan product is not a candidate for what I do. As far as listening goes, I listen everything, from Dvorak to trans-synth, to Cream. Also, I've spent the better part of my life flying jet airplanes, so my hearing is terrible. Lastly, I'm very fortunate in that have a work schedule that allows me to listen a lot during the week, and this is focused listening in a dedicated room, not background.
So, what I should have said is that you MAY be able to get away with what I do depending on a number of factors.
Lately, I've been spending a lot of time with the ACA mini on battery power and it's my new pride and joy. Plenty of drive and sounds amazing driven by battery power.
I take it then that you don't listen to loud volumes at all?
That was my first experience with the F4. It lets the preamp shine through and presents an awesome performance... just won't play Loud... nevermind LOUD.
Now then, the ACA Mini sure punches way above, don't it? I had it driving a pair of nice 85db dynamic speakers very well and it's very musical.
If was amazing to see this little thing, sitting between the behemoths in their 5U, 400mm chassis, cranking tunes.
How did you achieve battery power for them? I run a dedicated circuit which does a great job, but I've thought about battery power, except my amps would easily drain such a thing.
Flying airplanes... check to see if you have a notch at 400Hz? That's where the transformers for the cabin subsystem (CSS) operate. The entire cabin of a commercial airliner is filled with that sound. I have a slight notch in my right ear... a bit shallow and pretty narrow (Thank God) from working in labs developing airliner avionics.
That was my first experience with the F4. It lets the preamp shine through and presents an awesome performance... just won't play Loud... nevermind LOUD.
Now then, the ACA Mini sure punches way above, don't it? I had it driving a pair of nice 85db dynamic speakers very well and it's very musical.
If was amazing to see this little thing, sitting between the behemoths in their 5U, 400mm chassis, cranking tunes.
How did you achieve battery power for them? I run a dedicated circuit which does a great job, but I've thought about battery power, except my amps would easily drain such a thing.
Flying airplanes... check to see if you have a notch at 400Hz? That's where the transformers for the cabin subsystem (CSS) operate. The entire cabin of a commercial airliner is filled with that sound. I have a slight notch in my right ear... a bit shallow and pretty narrow (Thank God) from working in labs developing airliner avionics.