I am going to finally make a jump and start building the my first diyaudio project. I am going to build the F4, but as I have read it is not just a simple plug and play amplifier. I'm gonna need a pre-amp.
Looking in the store I have came up with a few options.
Can I have good advice on a choice please. One which will happily feed the F4. From what I have read the pre-amp for the F4 is going to be the defining part in the overall sound of this amplifier so I do want to take great care in getting it right first time.
Advice on another pre-amp is welcome or why these are a bad idea.
Looking in the store I have came up with a few options.
- The AC pre-amp
- Maybe a full ACA could work?
- The Whammy
Can I have good advice on a choice please. One which will happily feed the F4. From what I have read the pre-amp for the F4 is going to be the defining part in the overall sound of this amplifier so I do want to take great care in getting it right first time.
Advice on another pre-amp is welcome or why these are a bad idea.
Too muddy the waters, there is John Broskie's Aikido boards: https://glass-ware.stores.yahoo.net/ailiam.html
I've built a few and think they are worth a look.
I've built a few and think they are worth a look.
SCG by ra7.
1) if you mean ACP+, then yes, great as headphone amp and pre, may not have enough gain, if you have inefficient speakers
2) no
3) yes, sure
Do not forger Wayne's burning amp pre in the store. Or Nutube pre by mr master Nelson, both in store. Nutube has great sound but some microphonics.
1) if you mean ACP+, then yes, great as headphone amp and pre, may not have enough gain, if you have inefficient speakers
2) no
3) yes, sure
Do not forger Wayne's burning amp pre in the store. Or Nutube pre by mr master Nelson, both in store. Nutube has great sound but some microphonics.
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You can drive the F4 with any voltage source of very modest means. I drive mine with one of two tube dacs and it’s the best sonically speaking.
I would build an ACA Mini and that way you have something to drive the F4 and an excellent amp to boot.
Any of the other things you have mentioned would be fine.
I would build an ACA Mini and that way you have something to drive the F4 and an excellent amp to boot.
Any of the other things you have mentioned would be fine.
Another one to consider is the BA3 front end built as a preamp: https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/the-ba-3-as-preamp-build-guide.258022/
But I'm going to suggest you try this test first:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...h-voltage-power-do-your-speakers-need.204857/
This should help you decide how much minimum gain/voltage swing you need from your preamp.
For example, I sometimes use an F4 clone with a fairly low gain preamp (say 10dB). That combined with the 2V RMS max output from the DAC only gives me only about 5W into 8 ohms max power. But in my small listening space, that turns out to be adequate.
Edit: Added link for BA3 as preamp.
But I'm going to suggest you try this test first:
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...h-voltage-power-do-your-speakers-need.204857/
This should help you decide how much minimum gain/voltage swing you need from your preamp.
For example, I sometimes use an F4 clone with a fairly low gain preamp (say 10dB). That combined with the 2V RMS max output from the DAC only gives me only about 5W into 8 ohms max power. But in my small listening space, that turns out to be adequate.
Edit: Added link for BA3 as preamp.
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@pmeeke Yes, proceed full speed ahead with F4, it’s awesome, you’ll love it, and we will help you get this figured out.
A couple of important questions -
What are you using as a source(s)?
What speakers do you have?
As for your immediate preamp questions, ACP+ maybe, ACA isn’t a preamp so no, Whammy yes, DIY front end 2022 yes, B1Korg no, B1 no, Iron Pre maybe.
A lot of this is going to depend on how much power you actually use, and your sources.
A couple of important questions -
What are you using as a source(s)?
What speakers do you have?
As for your immediate preamp questions, ACP+ maybe, ACA isn’t a preamp so no, Whammy yes, DIY front end 2022 yes, B1Korg no, B1 no, Iron Pre maybe.
A lot of this is going to depend on how much power you actually use, and your sources.
So if you are somewhat new to this, the BA3 may be tough to adjust correctly. There are three pots on each channel of the BA3 front end. Two of them adjust the bias of the output MOSFETs on the front end while the other pot adjusts the distortion characteristics. The best way to benefit from this front-end board is to have a distortion analyzer. However, there are some prescribed number of turn suggestions that can get you into the ball part.
With that being said, one benefit of that front end is that it is kind of a chameleon. But if you are going to build that, I wonder if it would be better to build the BA3 as an amplifier.
The F4 looks to be the same as the BA3 output stage but with the two JFETs acting as a buffer to correct the impedance that the source sees.
I personally like the BA2018 but you would have to check to see if it has enough gain for a F4. I suspect a quick search for F4 in that thread should yeild that question. However, you would have to get cozy soldering SMD JFETS.
With that being said, one benefit of that front end is that it is kind of a chameleon. But if you are going to build that, I wonder if it would be better to build the BA3 as an amplifier.
The F4 looks to be the same as the BA3 output stage but with the two JFETs acting as a buffer to correct the impedance that the source sees.
I personally like the BA2018 but you would have to check to see if it has enough gain for a F4. I suspect a quick search for F4 in that thread should yeild that question. However, you would have to get cozy soldering SMD JFETS.
Meaning your first diy electronics project? Or just the first one from diyAudio website/store?
Starting from the bottom up
. I dislike overpowering bass the rumble of bass overpowering everything is just horrendous. One of my pet hates when listening to other peoples systems.
But later down the line I will be building my own speakers.
My mission in this long and endless project will be a few F4's via an active crossover feeding my speakers. This is one of the reasons for choosing the F4 as i can set them at different power outputs for the different drivers on my speakers.... Eventually ....
I'm going to order the PCB's from the store this week, I want to try and get them all ordered in one shot. The post to here is mad, roughly $50 postage and $50 taxes
First DIY project. I have the wideband wien oscillator and H2 as starting practice projects.
A bit tricky, I do like things to be bright with plenty of nice treble, but not harsh, warm is nice
. I dislike overpowering bass the rumble of bass overpowering everything is just horrendous. One of my pet hates when listening to other peoples systems.Hopefully a decent Oscilloscope is on its way to me. I'm currently doing electrical repairs in a very large electronics company and have dropped the question for a scope. This place is like a oscilloscope / test equipment wet dream lol.
I agree, too much talk about microphonics.
I want to make the amp versatile. Currently I have Dali Zensor 7's with Zensor 3's plonked on top of them. They sound brilliant together setup like this. listening to them on there own they just sound terrible now.
But later down the line I will be building my own speakers.
My mission in this long and endless project will be a few F4's via an active crossover feeding my speakers. This is one of the reasons for choosing the F4 as i can set them at different power outputs for the different drivers on my speakers.... Eventually ....
I do like it loud enough to feel a thump but not too loud. My source at the minute is a Topping E30 dac fed from HQplayer.
A lot of talk on the BA3 and a nice guide linked so the BA3 it is
I'm going to order the PCB's from the store this week, I want to try and get them all ordered in one shot. The post to here is mad, roughly $50 postage and $50 taxes
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BA-3 can keep you busy for a while A lot of members here like it. In response to my initial concern regarding the BA-3, 6l6's suggestion was a good one. Leave the pot alone.
Let us know if you have any questions about it. If you would like, you can share your order list here and we can go through it to see if we think you may be missing anything ( hopefully prevent another $50 postage )
You will need to order the power supply parts from digikey and/or mouser along with the parts for the front end etc. Don't forget you will need 3 CL-60's. The DIYaudiostore has the mosfets the Keratherm insulators and a chassis if you want to use those. Antek has transformers, There is some nice silicone hookup wire on Amazon if that is available to you. If you get the backpanel kit, it will come with a lot of screws that you can use to mount your boards. The heatsinks I belive are tapped for M3x.5. you'll need some sort of 4 position terminal to arrange the mains connections with the CL-60. I tend to use these.
A lot of members here like it. In response to my initial concern regarding the BA-3, 6l6's suggestion was a good one. Leave the pot alone. Let us know if you have any questions about it. If you would like, you can share your order list here and we can go through it to see if we think you may be missing anything ( hopefully prevent another $50 postage )
You will need to order the power supply parts from digikey and/or mouser along with the parts for the front end etc. Don't forget you will need 3 CL-60's. The DIYaudiostore has the mosfets the Keratherm insulators and a chassis if you want to use those. Antek has transformers, There is some nice silicone hookup wire on Amazon if that is available to you. If you get the backpanel kit, it will come with a lot of screws that you can use to mount your boards. The heatsinks I belive are tapped for M3x.5. you'll need some sort of 4 position terminal to arrange the mains connections with the CL-60. I tend to use these.
I feel like a stalker of topics regarding F4 amp in this forum. I love mine! I also have some of the preamps mentioned (ACP+, WLS 2018, BA-3 FE) including the JEL Type 76 full Function (with phono) preamp. All sounds great with the amp. I have also driven my F4 with low power SET amps (2A3, 45, 300B, El34 SE) with great success using 16-ohm load at the output then to the F4 inputs. Speaker sensitivity (and easy load)seems to be the key for me in enjoying the F4. I have high sensitivity speakers.
At present, I am running my amp with a type 26 preamp (tubes, with DACT attenuator). Come spring, I will change the 26 to my favorite SS preamp that I currently own, the BA-3 FE (Front End). I prefer the BA-3 FE to the WLS 2018 or the ACP + (which are great sounding preamps) because of the detail and clarity as well as its closest to tube sound tonality with great bass that I am getting from its performance! I had played with the profile of my BA-3 and that, plus changing the volume pot to MUSES, I think contributes to the sound that I am enjoying today.
The F4 is a great amp!
At present, I am running my amp with a type 26 preamp (tubes, with DACT attenuator). Come spring, I will change the 26 to my favorite SS preamp that I currently own, the BA-3 FE (Front End). I prefer the BA-3 FE to the WLS 2018 or the ACP + (which are great sounding preamps) because of the detail and clarity as well as its closest to tube sound tonality with great bass that I am getting from its performance! I had played with the profile of my BA-3 and that, plus changing the volume pot to MUSES, I think contributes to the sound that I am enjoying today.
The F4 is a great amp!
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