I agree, but the outcome for me is desirable, it seems that the only way to keep GD low and reach desired head room, I'd need sealed 15" or 18" woofers in pairs on each main and the same in 2 satellite subs. I am in the belief that I can hear a change at about half xmax of my subs. Rather than argue details of limitations I'd rather just make it a non issue by reducing excursion to <2mm. In your words "see it move, see it distort"... For plenty of people, designing and manufacturing a waveguide isnt feasible, let alone, necessary, yet the gain in accuracy is desirable and welcome... Having spread out bass sources, ie, a set of vertically stacked dual woofers, in the rear, will increase headroom, and further smooth out FR. Also may create possibility to try a double bass array. Its not super expensive either, so its a kinda, why not 🤷♂️ It'd be nice to have everything set up to perform to 123db peaks, in linear fashion... its was nice at the movies. Speaking of, to think the Imax system was performing that high of levels at well over 12ft?! And no distortion?!, what type of subs are they packing and how many, just wow.
I might of paraphrased a little 🤷♂️...
"Don't see it move, don't hear distort...how about that? Either way it seems that less excursion is a good thing so why not keep the trend down to cut off... why not keep the trend at dynamic peak, as well.
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"Paraphrased"! More like reworded. What I said is true, but the converse, what you claim I said, is not. This kind of argumentative support is beneath you.
Seeing the cone move does not mean that it is distorted. There are many good woofers with high excursion that are more than linear enough so as to not be an issue. Your position is simply untenable and a waste of design freedom to no purpose.
Yeah, my 'tongue in cheek' response was/is only relevant for those of us using the pioneer's low Xmax design drivers that were tuned down around/at Fs or folks that sufficiently over power their system's linear design.
Guess I need to limit its use to so called 'FR' drivers.
Guess I need to limit its use to so called 'FR' drivers.
The way that you say the words, I can't find fault 🤣 nor can I find fault with your critique, being that, being exactly precise, has probably been your prowess.
"If you don't see it move, you can't hear it distort"....
I think I fit into the "sufficiently overpowered linear design".... the multi independent bass sources are also my best bet of getting a good FR before room treatment. Sources spaced on the horizontal and vertical plane
Works for me! What I meant though is those folks driving their high Xmax systems to audible distortion.
What conclusion, where and whatabout? 😏
I think there are some psychological conclusions to consider.
OTOH, A lot of good data has been presented, by experts in the field, that could help someone reach a good conclusion.
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There's some truth in it.
From a strictly theoretical/hypothetical point of view, there are plenty of counter-arguments to be found, but let's not dismiss reality and pretend size doesn't matter.
Efficiency rules!
(There you have a conclusion
)
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Being able to come up with alternative ideas, whether good or bad, gets the juices flowing. Looking at the the hypothetical;
What if I put the 2 - 18h+ in a large Tapered TL or BR, say about 500liters, tuned to 20hz, GD delay reaches 28ms at 20hz...whats that sound like? In hornresp I get these cancellations.... I can trust this>?
BR
TaperedTL
No cake and icing here either? Harmonic cancellation unless I use stuffing with these Big vented enclosures?... The 18H+s should be able to be crossed at 350hz... Excursion is low, especially when factoring in the rest of the woofers used for bass.
What if I put the 2 - 18h+ in a large Tapered TL or BR, say about 500liters, tuned to 20hz, GD delay reaches 28ms at 20hz...whats that sound like? In hornresp I get these cancellations.... I can trust this>?
BR
TaperedTL
No cake and icing here either? Harmonic cancellation unless I use stuffing with these Big vented enclosures?... The 18H+s should be able to be crossed at 350hz... Excursion is low, especially when factoring in the rest of the woofers used for bass.
Didn't I already do an inverse tapered HR sim with damping that originally met all your performance goals?
I was just analyzing that design matter of fact. Its tuned to 30hz without filling. I want it to be bigger and possibly larger final CSA but it seems harmonics are in the way of the sizes I chose... I just want to check that I am not throwing the baby out with the bath water regarding the responses shown above basically 100hz.
The BR port has a 500cm2 in the above and the Taper TL final csa is 314cm2....also the Tapered TL is 589l will teh BR is 513cm2....
I found that I've asked this question once before, and the answer is a good one
Ok now that I am back on square, @GM I was I trying to model the most efficient enclosure I could, using dual 18"s and a useable bandwidth to crossover to a horn, around 350hz. The enclosure could be big, like 500liters or maybe bigger, depending.
By moving the path length in the BR sim, I can mitigate these resonances
Not sure if a path length feature should be available for TL and other vented sims
Ok now that I am back on square, @GM I was I trying to model the most efficient enclosure I could, using dual 18"s and a useable bandwidth to crossover to a horn, around 350hz. The enclosure could be big, like 500liters or maybe bigger, depending.
By moving the path length in the BR sim, I can mitigate these resonances
Not sure if a path length feature should be available for TL and other vented sims