But the 12" needs a sub or they are used with a box resonance on the driver Fs to get the lower -f3 : which gives not the best transcient & sound ? Am I correct ?
Hence a 15" for a 2 ways : Fs between 35hz/40 hz for the best and climbing high enough to 600/800 hz... and more but beaming : good enough for a good combo cd/horn. Correct !
Now a 18" & a 12" + horn should be something
15PR400 vs 15FS520 Zat is ze queztion ?!
Bass of the Beymas are often diving faster in the low as B&C ? Or perhaps Faital graphs are a bit optimistic ???
Hence a 15" for a 2 ways : Fs between 35hz/40 hz for the best and climbing high enough to 600/800 hz... and more but beaming : good enough for a good combo cd/horn. Correct !
Now a 18" & a 12" + horn should be something
15PR400 vs 15FS520 Zat is ze queztion ?!
Bass of the Beymas are often diving faster in the low as B&C ? Or perhaps Faital graphs are a bit optimistic ???
yea, I ran double 15's up to 750hz, worked great.
but you need a 2' wide horn to get low enough to cross there.
Now I use a 12" crossing at 1.2khz, sounds better (better horn).
but you need a 2' wide horn to get low enough to cross there.
Now I use a 12" crossing at 1.2khz, sounds better (better horn).
I run the 15/400 to 1khz where it's a good directivity match with the bigger Heil amt.
Sounds seamless. Adding in another 15" driver at around 100hz would be something I'd like to try one day.
Sounds seamless. Adding in another 15" driver at around 100hz would be something I'd like to try one day.
Last edited:
te big Heil is very advised above 1600/1800 cause HD... I assume it's about an average listening volume though... remind me angeloitacare thread with this and the in between quest driver between his Beyma AMT and the bass unit...
Me dreaming of a 2 ways with a 15; XO something 700/800 HZ cause the horn size... so PA drivers, horn seems existing with 18thSounds but narrow dispersion too much maybe for home hifi & does it work is a different story in the XO area. PA yes for the bigger Sd, better directivity, slam... but if as good as classic hifi for me... that damned cabinet size... Klipshorn in the right room wit the right walls was clever.. hey 90° !
About 12" PA, some simply are found of the EV made for guitar portable amp !
Me dreaming of a 2 ways with a 15; XO something 700/800 HZ cause the horn size... so PA drivers, horn seems existing with 18thSounds but narrow dispersion too much maybe for home hifi & does it work is a different story in the XO area. PA yes for the bigger Sd, better directivity, slam... but if as good as classic hifi for me... that damned cabinet size... Klipshorn in the right room wit the right walls was clever.. hey 90° !
About 12" PA, some simply are found of the EV made for guitar portable amp !
Last edited:
hey, if any in iowa, I can make a deal on a jbl 2384 horn (2' wide) ...………..
I don't dare ship it.
I don't dare ship it.
Got 8pcs of the little brothers of the Fane FC-153F01, the Fane FC-123F02. Appaers to be the same motor driving a different cone.
Here's the H3 comparison of out-of-box FC-123F02 vs. couple of month used FC-153F01. The 12" is without a box "naked", the 15" is in a closed box. Mic distance is 5cm to dust cap. Drive level is the same, something less than a watt. H3 does not get much higher (relatively to signal) with increased drive level so this "motor's inductive distortion" which the H3 (and H5) represents, can be measured with low amplitude quite good in the mid band.
These are made with a SE tube amp with no feedback. With a fully voltage source amp, ie. normal sand amp, the H3 might rise couple dB's.
Without the harmonic freq as ref:
Last edited:
Okay, and how about FaitalPro 18FH500 in small /i dont know maybe about 100L/ sealed cabinet as subwoofer? Used at small room cca 25m2? With massive dsp of course 😀
The JBL 2235H (hard to obtain) is often considered a nice pro-woofer, along with the more modern 2216Nd used in the M2 studio monitor.
Hello,
I was reading this topic and interesting speakers were mentioned...
I like to use wide range 6.5" medium speakers, now BC 6md38 and to cut at 300 and 2500hz
I am now using a beyma 12b100r which is an interesting speaker because 29hz and plays low at home tuned at 38hz in a relatively small cabinet...
I am redoing my cab's trying to understand baffle step, diffraction and internal raisonnances...I have not put any damping material inside the low cabinets and if crossover doesn't have a steep slope you can hear some raisonnances in particular from long cellos notes...but again it is good to try and to know what is going on...
My question is :
Could I try faital 15fh520 to play 30-300 and connect it with 6md38 + Audax tw34 waveguided tweeter...?
Do you prefer high slopes (digital filtering) or traditional 12/24 dB/Oct slopes. But -24db at 3000hz seems poor to me...
Do you make trapezoidal cabinets, do you fill them with wife's curtains ?
Regards Greg
I was reading this topic and interesting speakers were mentioned...
I like to use wide range 6.5" medium speakers, now BC 6md38 and to cut at 300 and 2500hz
I am now using a beyma 12b100r which is an interesting speaker because 29hz and plays low at home tuned at 38hz in a relatively small cabinet...
I am redoing my cab's trying to understand baffle step, diffraction and internal raisonnances...I have not put any damping material inside the low cabinets and if crossover doesn't have a steep slope you can hear some raisonnances in particular from long cellos notes...but again it is good to try and to know what is going on...
My question is :
Could I try faital 15fh520 to play 30-300 and connect it with 6md38 + Audax tw34 waveguided tweeter...?
Do you prefer high slopes (digital filtering) or traditional 12/24 dB/Oct slopes. But -24db at 3000hz seems poor to me...
Do you make trapezoidal cabinets, do you fill them with wife's curtains ?
Regards Greg
Sure. Why not? Looks like a decent combination.
What do you mean under that "-24dB at 3000Hz is seems poor"?
I guess he fears that the woofer kowpass would only be down by 24 dB at 3 kHz. In the case of a 2nd order lowpass at 300 Hz the signal would actually be 40 dB down at 3 kHz. And 80 dB by using a fourth order lowpass.
Regards
Charles.
Regards
Charles.
Yes, I mean that I prefer to listen with a high slope for xo frequencies for both cutoffs 300, 2500) And it seams that the interferences between deivers is less problematic and easier to deal with...
That said the beyma beyma 12 b100r is pretty good between 30 and 300hz, not sure if another driver will transcend the setup...
Maybe I will benefit more from perfect cabinet design...
Regards Greg
That said the beyma beyma 12 b100r is pretty good between 30 and 300hz, not sure if another driver will transcend the setup...
Maybe I will benefit more from perfect cabinet design...
Regards Greg
Assuming a 24dB Linkwitz-Riley filter and a nominal 300Hz crossover point the woofer output is down by 6dB at 300Hz, 30dB at 600, 54dB at 1200 and 78dB at 2400Hz.
Hi all, i did not read all of the posts of this thread so carefully, but i am wondering about the following:
in very old days there was woofer chassis with large dimensions for studio and HiFi use. Nowadays almost all of them are not in production anymore. The only large woofer chassis still in production are ultra low resonance frequency subwoofer chassis with low efficiency. I have built a long long time ago a 400 - 500 liter Sub with 2 15 inch Fostex FW 400 driver, very low resonance frequency about 27 Hz and a very low mechanical resistance foam surround driven with a Nacamichi EC-100 active crossover and some kind of diy MOS FET power amp modules for a diy power amp. I have never heard such an accurate bass response in a room of mine at home since then.
I have bought a pair of Sonido SW 400 15 inch chassis some years ago, but they are not the caliber of the old Fostex FW 400. I am using them in an open baffle sub construction. Sonido in Hungary do not sell them anymore either. There is an offer is the U.S.:
Acoustic Elegance Speakers
I like the build quality and the parameters, i am wondering is someone here could get his fingers on them, here a picture:
There are some other brands that still produce "old style" large woofers, here:
Supravox 15 inch AlNiCo
Supravox 15 inch ferrite magnet
There are some serious horn speaker builders in Germany that swear about the sound quality of these drive units.
I have ordered a pair of custom 12 inch woofer from Sonido in Hungary, here:
they have some kind of peculiar TSP, here:
fs 34Hz
Mms 28 grams
Rms 0.34 kg/s
Vas 260 liter
xmax +/- 4.5 mm
Sd 488 square cm
Re 6.1 Ohm
Le 0.8 mH
Qms 17.8
Qes 0.41
Qts 0.40
The custom thing is no whizzer cone and kapton instead of aluminum (AE, BE aluminium) voice coil carrier.
I couldn't find any other 12 inch drive units with this Thiele Small parameter values.
in very old days there was woofer chassis with large dimensions for studio and HiFi use. Nowadays almost all of them are not in production anymore. The only large woofer chassis still in production are ultra low resonance frequency subwoofer chassis with low efficiency. I have built a long long time ago a 400 - 500 liter Sub with 2 15 inch Fostex FW 400 driver, very low resonance frequency about 27 Hz and a very low mechanical resistance foam surround driven with a Nacamichi EC-100 active crossover and some kind of diy MOS FET power amp modules for a diy power amp. I have never heard such an accurate bass response in a room of mine at home since then.
I have bought a pair of Sonido SW 400 15 inch chassis some years ago, but they are not the caliber of the old Fostex FW 400. I am using them in an open baffle sub construction. Sonido in Hungary do not sell them anymore either. There is an offer is the U.S.:
Acoustic Elegance Speakers
I like the build quality and the parameters, i am wondering is someone here could get his fingers on them, here a picture:
There are some other brands that still produce "old style" large woofers, here:
Supravox 15 inch AlNiCo
Supravox 15 inch ferrite magnet
There are some serious horn speaker builders in Germany that swear about the sound quality of these drive units.
I have ordered a pair of custom 12 inch woofer from Sonido in Hungary, here:
they have some kind of peculiar TSP, here:
fs 34Hz
Mms 28 grams
Rms 0.34 kg/s
Vas 260 liter
xmax +/- 4.5 mm
Sd 488 square cm
Re 6.1 Ohm
Le 0.8 mH
Qms 17.8
Qes 0.41
Qts 0.40
The custom thing is no whizzer cone and kapton instead of aluminum (AE, BE aluminium) voice coil carrier.
I couldn't find any other 12 inch drive units with this Thiele Small parameter values.
Last edited by a moderator:
15fh520 could be a good option vented and not trying to artificially make it go too looow (I also don't like oversized cabinet for pa woofers).
Yes what I was saying is that I tend to prefer high slopes, maybe it is because l am not good at designing speakers lol.
But almost no feedback on this speaker? Thanks to troels everyone is buying 15pr400... Which looks more like a midbass lol
I've got 15fh520, although it is in the closet at the moment. I'm not sure if there is too much difference between drivers as long as you have a plan they fit. If 15fh520 suits your system there is not much better alternatives.
Measured TS parameters were off from the datasheet and was explained by manufacturer that the specs are measured after some time so that the driver is "hot". Although my measurements possibly have error I still would not measure Fs lower than 48Hz, Vas was over 300 if I remember. Still, the room dominates the sound so.. just buy biggest cone and most advanced motor you can afford (money and space) and you are golden. I think the beyma you have is very much fine for most applications and won't limit performance of your system atm. You can always add more bass boxes later. Check out multisub ala Geddes if you haven't 🙂
Bottom line is, if you have drivers just design the system for them. If you don't have drivers yet, driver selection is the very last step in speaker system design. Design the system for your application, and just buy suitable drivers for the design, easiest thing in the world, if the design is based on reality.
Measured TS parameters were off from the datasheet and was explained by manufacturer that the specs are measured after some time so that the driver is "hot". Although my measurements possibly have error I still would not measure Fs lower than 48Hz, Vas was over 300 if I remember. Still, the room dominates the sound so.. just buy biggest cone and most advanced motor you can afford (money and space) and you are golden. I think the beyma you have is very much fine for most applications and won't limit performance of your system atm. You can always add more bass boxes later. Check out multisub ala Geddes if you haven't 🙂
Bottom line is, if you have drivers just design the system for them. If you don't have drivers yet, driver selection is the very last step in speaker system design. Design the system for your application, and just buy suitable drivers for the design, easiest thing in the world, if the design is based on reality.
i think you have it backwards.
the question should be are there any high-end consumer components that can compete with pro drivers.
the answer is no.
not even close.
Thanks, I think you are right and reasonable.
I am liking a lot the 6.5 wide range philosophy around 300-3000...
Now thinking of the best way to support them before doing the final cabinet...
But it is true can't complain about 12b100r in my setup and room...
SB34NRXL75-8 and 12b100r have the same purpose I think
12b100r:
Resonant Frequency fs 29 Hz
Impedance (Re)6.6 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le)1.3 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.49
Electrical Factor(Qes).31
Total Q (Qts).30
Comp. Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 154 Liters
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax)3.0 mm
Reference Efficiency 1.2%
Displacement Volume 160 cm3
SB
Sensitivity91 dB 2.83V/1m
Voice Coil Diameter 2.97"
DC Resistance (Re)6.2 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)1.2 mH
Resonant Frequency (Fs)22 Hz
Mechanical Q (Qms)5.5
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.29
Total Q (Qts)0.28
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)93 g
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.56 mm/N
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)508 cm2
BL Product (BL)16.6 Tm
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)
7.23 ft.³
12b100r:
Resonant Frequency fs 29 Hz
Impedance (Re)6.6 ohms
Coil Inductance (Le)1.3 mH
Mechanical Q (Qms)6.49
Electrical Factor(Qes).31
Total Q (Qts).30
Comp. Equivalent Vol. (Vas) 154 Liters
Voice Coil Overhang (Xmax)3.0 mm
Reference Efficiency 1.2%
Displacement Volume 160 cm3
SB
Sensitivity91 dB 2.83V/1m
Voice Coil Diameter 2.97"
DC Resistance (Re)6.2 ohms
Voice Coil Inductance (Le)1.2 mH
Resonant Frequency (Fs)22 Hz
Mechanical Q (Qms)5.5
Electromagnetic Q (Qes)0.29
Total Q (Qts)0.28
Diaphragm Mass Inc. Airload (Mms)93 g
Mechanical Compliance of Suspension (Cms)0.56 mm/N
Surface Area of Cone (Sd)508 cm2
BL Product (BL)16.6 Tm
Compliance Equivalent Volume (Vas)
7.23 ft.³
Last edited: