McCauley hasn't been mentioned here yet, so I figured I do. I only have experience with the 6174 and I am very satisfied. I am using it in an open baffle setup, the baffle is very slim with only about 2 inches around each driver, the McCauley's mounted close to the floor. Everything is run actively, and I use some equalization for the lowest octave. The driver is usually crossed at 50 or 100 hz, I am still playing around with the other drivers 🙂
I haven't measured, but they sure go low. I never had speakers that could go this low, make the walls shake like that. And I am quite certain my neighbors upstairs can't wait for the day that we move out...
There is also a nice write-up of someone who built a custom enclosure for the 6174 and did some measurements:
http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Subwoofer_Design.pdf
McCauley is not very often mentioned around here, maybe because the drivers are not easily available. I don't even know where to buy them new. I got mine used on the 'bay. Every once in a while some show up there. Drivers are all American-made, in house etc. Quality is quite impressive. Two thumbs up from me.
I haven't measured, but they sure go low. I never had speakers that could go this low, make the walls shake like that. And I am quite certain my neighbors upstairs can't wait for the day that we move out...
There is also a nice write-up of someone who built a custom enclosure for the 6174 and did some measurements:
http://www.bodziosoftware.com.au/Subwoofer_Design.pdf
McCauley is not very often mentioned around here, maybe because the drivers are not easily available. I don't even know where to buy them new. I got mine used on the 'bay. Every once in a while some show up there. Drivers are all American-made, in house etc. Quality is quite impressive. Two thumbs up from me.
that beyma is pretty similar to bms 18s430v2, bms just slightly lower mms, stronger motor and little bit cheaper, and oh some shorting rings too.
ATC use double spiders/suspension in all their drivers including their tweeter as do Volt except in their 2" dome AFAIK.
double spider
I ask because I know some 6" double spider units from the audio car purpose but seen in hifi. Was asking myself about the advantage of it for bass fhz use...
looking for a god mid-woof from the PA range seems not that easy if you lookt at some parameters like HD : H3 seems more involved in most of the PA driver above 100 hz till cone break up ! Would like to see something as good as the best 10" or 12" Revelator metal or paper cone for bass to low mid for this spec ! Even Sb doesn't come close with its big SB bass units from the few measurments I saw with the links given at Diyaudio from enthuiasts.
Has anyone measured the HD till H5 with some speakers we talk about here : Faitals PR serie for instance as people like it ! Would like to see ho it looks like vs a good 16" from Tad or the best foam suround bass unit from Fostex (too much expensive like ScanSpeak unluckily 🙁).
I ask because I know some 6" double spider units from the audio car purpose but seen in hifi. Was asking myself about the advantage of it for bass fhz use...
looking for a god mid-woof from the PA range seems not that easy if you lookt at some parameters like HD : H3 seems more involved in most of the PA driver above 100 hz till cone break up ! Would like to see something as good as the best 10" or 12" Revelator metal or paper cone for bass to low mid for this spec ! Even Sb doesn't come close with its big SB bass units from the few measurments I saw with the links given at Diyaudio from enthuiasts.
Has anyone measured the HD till H5 with some speakers we talk about here : Faitals PR serie for instance as people like it ! Would like to see ho it looks like vs a good 16" from Tad or the best foam suround bass unit from Fostex (too much expensive like ScanSpeak unluckily 🙁).
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Don't remember where I saw that but on some 10" & 12" PA measurments showed H3 part higher than H2 or close behind... maybe the bad measurment skill of the guy, dunno ! I don't say it's a rule but certainly PA drivers have much in mind huge spl than good HD behavior, who knows... Sure so cool to see more good measurment as you show here 🙂 Thanks for that..
I´ve seen those too, even beyma shows their own data sheets few models.
big sb bass? you mean this? Test Bench: The SB42FHCL75-6 15” Subwoofer from SB Acoustics | audioXpress
big sb bass? you mean this? Test Bench: The SB42FHCL75-6 15” Subwoofer from SB Acoustics | audioXpress
Not this one, which seems pretty good with a H2/H3 at - 40 dB... cool ! I remember it costs expensive...
I think it was a 12" iirc and the 9" Satori ! The Revelator 10" or 12" metal cone had very good H2 and H3 -10 to 20 dB than the H2 between 100 to 800/1000 hz. sorry not to be acurate in my statments here.
I think it was a 12" iirc and the 9" Satori ! The Revelator 10" or 12" metal cone had very good H2 and H3 -10 to 20 dB than the H2 between 100 to 800/1000 hz. sorry not to be acurate in my statments here.
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Fane FC-153F01 has copper shorting ring, has to be full lenght copper sleeve because the impedance is 25ohm at 20khz. H3 performance as good as it gets, stays under -60dB/0,1% even at 1khz region where H3/H5 usually rise.
8pcs of these bang quite snappy and coherently in a sealed line array subs😛
Measured with a SE-UL tube amp with only cathode feedback.
8pcs of these bang quite snappy and coherently in a sealed line array subs😛
Measured with a SE-UL tube amp with only cathode feedback.
15" civil war at Faital
Thank you Legis for the measurements.
@ all,
Any thouhts aourt the Faital 15HF250 vs Faital 155PR400 from 40 hz to 800 hz ?
Many Praise the Faital 15PR400, cause it has a ligther conel for the upper bass/low mid... But looking at the Faital 15HF250 that has just a very slighty higher Fs (38 hz vs 35 Hz) and an heavir cone, the BL/Mms ratio seems slighty better (maybe nt enough to be interested ny this difference), but mostly the 15FH2500 has an heavier cone with as much as magnet control (just looking at the BL).
Mostly the 15HF250 has an heavier cone, ratio and eight seems spec nearer than some famoous PA speaker used in hifi !
To say it short and I remember a phrase from Earm Gedles about his 2 ways big cabinet : stifness and mass of the bass driver must be strong enough.
That certainly mean too light cone as the 70g from SB with textrene.
That's why I often changeb a little some films testimonials!!!!
🙁.... I used to listent to voices from concert.
Thank you Legis for the measurements.
@ all,
Any thouhts aourt the Faital 15HF250 vs Faital 155PR400 from 40 hz to 800 hz ?
Many Praise the Faital 15PR400, cause it has a ligther conel for the upper bass/low mid... But looking at the Faital 15HF250 that has just a very slighty higher Fs (38 hz vs 35 Hz) and an heavir cone, the BL/Mms ratio seems slighty better (maybe nt enough to be interested ny this difference), but mostly the 15FH2500 has an heavier cone with as much as magnet control (just looking at the BL).
Mostly the 15HF250 has an heavier cone, ratio and eight seems spec nearer than some famoous PA speaker used in hifi !
To say it short and I remember a phrase from Earm Gedles about his 2 ways big cabinet : stifness and mass of the bass driver must be strong enough.
That certainly mean too light cone as the 70g from SB with textrene.
That's why I often changeb a little some films testimonials!!!!
🙁.... I used to listent to voices from concert.
I did not read the whole tread, with all the flaming and so, but in my experience it's mainy the mms and the Le that need to be low to make a pro audio driver fit for hifi and lower power applications. And some can be as good as the best hifi drivers for hifi use, while others are useless for hifi.
Brands that make good drivers for hifi use are for me faital, fane, emminence, ...
Brands that make good drivers for hifi use are for me faital, fane, emminence, ...
I would also take (almost) any PD regardless how they measure.🙂
Faital 12PR300 measurements (and many others): FaitalPRO 12PR300 - drivervault
The cone is the most important factor, there is no better test for a woofer than just listen to it raw. Good H3 performance is just a nice bonus compared to good sounding cone and other moving mechanics (and their weight compared to motoric force) imo.
Faital 12PR300 measurements (and many others): FaitalPRO 12PR300 - drivervault
The cone is the most important factor, there is no better test for a woofer than just listen to it raw. Good H3 performance is just a nice bonus compared to good sounding cone and other moving mechanics (and their weight compared to motoric force) imo.
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Ay Legis, I readed you have a long experience with high efficienty diy. Yes if I have monney enough, no doubt I chhose a AE or a PD brands, or expensive Fostex, Audax or PHL.
Indeed that is what I wanted to say about mms and BL, Tesla number aswell maybe. I don t know if I am right but I just look at BL divided by mms. Cause great Jbls and Altecs were relativly heavy for 15" but sounded both tight and detailled with directivity better than 500hz, 3" voice coils...
Earl Gedles uses a very heavy and stiff B&C for the Summa , brand he was consultant for.
That's why on the paper the fairly priced for my monney Faital 15hf250 seems better on the paper at least.
Just f3has 3 db more than the 15pr400. But weight force ratio seems better and the heavier cone perhaps distorss less cause less prompt to break ups. He has a demodulation ring as an extra and looks good enough for a 700 to 800 hz xo.
I however surmise the low 70 g weight of the 15PR400 helps to be more linear and easier for xo above the natural wave lengh and diameter of the cone that makes most of the 15" poor off axis after 30 degrees where we care more towards the 2 Pi patern when frequency increases towards the upper driver we want to match ? So towards 500 hz to 1 K hz ...
But voila, in real life both Gravsen in a 3 ways and Tony Gee in a 2 ways prefer the light 15pr400 and its 70 g vs 100g of the 15hf250. Makes sense for the 2 ways that xo high but why for the 3 ways.
Indeed the pr400 has a low 0.7 Le vs 1.2 Le...
For me if active or a near zero ohms coil I understand experienced designers do not care, correct?
The Le is took at 1k hz. Much worse near Fs if i understand what one explained to me here at Diyaudio. Does that mean a larger Le gives a larger width of the Fs near the low base of the impedance curve, so less reactiv and "fast"
What is Le importance factor in the choice of a bass driver please?
RCF seems also good Q to P ratio for bass PA drivers that make bass...for hifi to avoid a sub cabinet.
Beyma and B&C are said to make less bass to increase power handling...and uses more than 18" in concerts and venues for low bass...
Indeed that is what I wanted to say about mms and BL, Tesla number aswell maybe. I don t know if I am right but I just look at BL divided by mms. Cause great Jbls and Altecs were relativly heavy for 15" but sounded both tight and detailled with directivity better than 500hz, 3" voice coils...
Earl Gedles uses a very heavy and stiff B&C for the Summa , brand he was consultant for.
That's why on the paper the fairly priced for my monney Faital 15hf250 seems better on the paper at least.
Just f3has 3 db more than the 15pr400. But weight force ratio seems better and the heavier cone perhaps distorss less cause less prompt to break ups. He has a demodulation ring as an extra and looks good enough for a 700 to 800 hz xo.
I however surmise the low 70 g weight of the 15PR400 helps to be more linear and easier for xo above the natural wave lengh and diameter of the cone that makes most of the 15" poor off axis after 30 degrees where we care more towards the 2 Pi patern when frequency increases towards the upper driver we want to match ? So towards 500 hz to 1 K hz ...
But voila, in real life both Gravsen in a 3 ways and Tony Gee in a 2 ways prefer the light 15pr400 and its 70 g vs 100g of the 15hf250. Makes sense for the 2 ways that xo high but why for the 3 ways.
Indeed the pr400 has a low 0.7 Le vs 1.2 Le...
For me if active or a near zero ohms coil I understand experienced designers do not care, correct?
The Le is took at 1k hz. Much worse near Fs if i understand what one explained to me here at Diyaudio. Does that mean a larger Le gives a larger width of the Fs near the low base of the impedance curve, so less reactiv and "fast"
What is Le importance factor in the choice of a bass driver please?
RCF seems also good Q to P ratio for bass PA drivers that make bass...for hifi to avoid a sub cabinet.
Beyma and B&C are said to make less bass to increase power handling...and uses more than 18" in concerts and venues for low bass...
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Hey diyiggy! It's a Faital Pro 15HF520 not 250, just in case if someone wants to find posts about that woofer.
Anyway, BL divided by Mms means almost nothing wihout Re, Sd and so on.
Too high motor strength is not always beneficial either, because if it's too much then bye-bye low-bass.
We need to find the optimal rates for our specific needs.
Anyway, BL divided by Mms means almost nothing wihout Re, Sd and so on.
Too high motor strength is not always beneficial either, because if it's too much then bye-bye low-bass.
We need to find the optimal rates for our specific needs.
Yes you re right, sorry for the dislexia...
So Faital 15FH520 it is 🙂
Thanks for the datas, but if you look the both drivers what is the one you will choose without sub till 750, 800 hz XO please?
So Faital 15FH520 it is 🙂
Thanks for the datas, but if you look the both drivers what is the one you will choose without sub till 750, 800 hz XO please?
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15HF520 almost seems to be impossible to find online. Is it discontinued or perhaps not really marketed by Faital?
Ah, it's 15FH520...
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I would choose the 15FH520. The more mass comes mainly from the longer voice coil and probably less from the cone itself. The higher mass is compensated by the higher magnetic force. The dispersion difference about different woofers you mentioned comes from different cone shapes, a sub-like woofer usually have straight cone and a woofer which is intended to us to higher frequencies have a curvelinear cone, both the PR400 and FH520 have curvelinear cones. The FH520 have demodulation ring, higher xmax and a slightly lower mechanical resistance (Rms). The FH520 probably better for the low-end.
But of course that's just my choice. Your mileage may differ.
But of course that's just my choice. Your mileage may differ.