Hi nandappe, do you have any detailed comparisons / differences between the MAOP 10.2 and "regular" versions such as Alpair 10.2/10.3 and 10P?
Dear RXV,
There is no big difference in the low range.
MAOP10 is high quality in the all range.
Alpair 10.3 has a nice high-frequency glitter.
Alpair10P has a great attack and good energy.
I think you can enjoy it no matter which one you choose.
Cost performance is
Alpair10.3 ＞ Alpair10P ＞ MAOP10
There is no big difference in the low range.
MAOP10 is high quality in the all range.
Alpair 10.3 has a nice high-frequency glitter.
Alpair10P has a great attack and good energy.
I think you can enjoy it no matter which one you choose.
Cost performance is
Alpair10.3 ＞ Alpair10P ＞ MAOP10
Dear RXV,
If you mainly listen to acoustic music (classical music, instrumental music, etc.), MAOP10 is a good buy.
Dear bepone,
There is only a small difference between MAOP 10.2 and 11.2.
The treble is a little better with the 10, and the bass is a little better with the 11.
I like the MAOP10 better.
If you mainly listen to acoustic music (classical music, instrumental music, etc.), MAOP10 is a good buy.
Dear bepone,
There is only a small difference between MAOP 10.2 and 11.2.
The treble is a little better with the 10, and the bass is a little better with the 11.
I like the MAOP10 better.
thanks, mids and highs are most important to me, i have 10 almost one week for now and im satisfied with the driver. i was tempted to buy also 11!
on MAOP 10 im listening apsolutelly all music, from metal to jazz.. i can say only in some bassy metal there is missing some lower octave, and music is not "full".. other genres are pasing..one of the few fullrangers who can play almost all the music without fatique. usually FR means a lot of compromise in music selection but here i just play all!
Now I have installed A10.2 Maop in my new boxes. Dave's construction mini Onken. About 11 liters with 3 channels per side.
Dire Strait "Brothers in arms" became the first CD to testing these.
The elements are completely new. No recording of drivers at all.
Here is my first listening impression:
There is nothing to complain about when it comes to the sound.
1. The bass is good. Detailed.
2. Intermediate register good. Detailed. Silksren.
3. Treble good. Silksren.
If I compare with A11MS, everything is better ..
More pleasant to listen to throughout the register.
They need to be recorded for a while, I think. But I do not know if it is needed. They sound great from the start. I do not know how much the construction of the boxes affects but the bass is very well articulated.
Thanks Dave !!!
Brilliant job.
I will come back when I have "recorded" them more.
Regards / Leif
Dire Strait "Brothers in arms" became the first CD to testing these.
The elements are completely new. No recording of drivers at all.
Here is my first listening impression:
There is nothing to complain about when it comes to the sound.
1. The bass is good. Detailed.
2. Intermediate register good. Detailed. Silksren.
3. Treble good. Silksren.
If I compare with A11MS, everything is better ..
More pleasant to listen to throughout the register.
They need to be recorded for a while, I think. But I do not know if it is needed. They sound great from the start. I do not know how much the construction of the boxes affects but the bass is very well articulated.
Thanks Dave !!!
Brilliant job.
I will come back when I have "recorded" them more.
Regards / Leif
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Now I have been listening for a few hours. Notice that they are starting to open up.
The sound image is very accurate. Voices are placed razor sharp in the sound image.
It is noticeable that these are elements with accurately measured parameters.
Now I understand that it is incredibly important that they fit together.
They are my references in the future and the best I have heard in my home.
Do not regret for a second that I bought them.
The soundscape has not been this good ever.
They can handle all the fast changes in the music without any significant problems. Now I'm starting to understand the capacity of my facility.
The sound is a bit laidback.
It appeals to me. The sound comes a little behind the speakers.
The sound image is very accurate. Voices are placed razor sharp in the sound image.
It is noticeable that these are elements with accurately measured parameters.
Now I understand that it is incredibly important that they fit together.
They are my references in the future and the best I have heard in my home.
Do not regret for a second that I bought them.
The soundscape has not been this good ever.
They can handle all the fast changes in the music without any significant problems. Now I'm starting to understand the capacity of my facility.
The sound is a bit laidback.
It appeals to me. The sound comes a little behind the speakers.
Can you elaborate what you mean by this? Also, what kind of amplification are you using? Thanks!
I can't judge on the MAOP as i never heared it, but the 10.3 can get to about 45hz in a simple bassreflex if it's done right. That Onken of Planet10 is also a good design but tuned a bit higher i thought.
But the bass really only come right after the run in so i think it may take a bit more time to get the good bass from these. And to go real low you may have to build a standmount cabinet like the frugal horn or an MLTL type like the Pencil.
And on amps, any good amp will work, but best results with my Mark Audio drivers come from tubes or class A transistor amps. Class D is less good, but still ok when it's a high quality class D amp.
But the bass really only come right after the run in so i think it may take a bit more time to get the good bass from these. And to go real low you may have to build a standmount cabinet like the frugal horn or an MLTL type like the Pencil.
And on amps, any good amp will work, but best results with my Mark Audio drivers come from tubes or class A transistor amps. Class D is less good, but still ok when it's a high quality class D amp.
to correct upper statement, i disagree from technical point of view.
chip, D class amps and heavy transistor amps are the best for driving the speakers, because they add nothing to the FR. i prefer valve amps for other reasons, but when i'm testing the new speaker im using often chip amps or D, to see the speaker behaviour.
i was comparing and measuring effect from various amplifiers to the frequency response of the same speaker..measuring Bode diagram directly on the speaker.
1. Single ended valve.. no feedback .. the worst case to drive certain speaker because tube amplifier is copying the impedance graph of the speaker..ie. how straight is the speaker impedance curve, the same would be at the speaker, with the result of altered frequency response. resonance bump is copied to the output, it is not supressed, and raised imp. response would result the same, so boomy bass and raised mid- highs are outcome (not ok)
SE small power even worst (1-2 watts)
SE higher power (15W-20W SE RS1003) better, good bass , the best highs (dependig of the output transformer ofcourse, 100kHz+ needed)
2. Single ended valve with the feedback, better but still impedance curve is not supressed, slight boomy bass alse depending of the feedback
3. PP valve amp, hi power 40W , speaker impedance curve is supressed but still noticeable, good bass , highs are depending of the amplifier used. NFB is supressing more the peak but too much NFB is killing the sound. very good option.
4. Transistor amp PP, speaker impedance curve doest have too much effect in resulting frequency curve, good bass normal highs
4. Chip amp LM3875, the same like 3, good bass , normal highs
5. Class D amp, good bass , normal highs
chip, D class amps and heavy transistor amps are the best for driving the speakers, because they add nothing to the FR. i prefer valve amps for other reasons, but when i'm testing the new speaker im using often chip amps or D, to see the speaker behaviour.
i was comparing and measuring effect from various amplifiers to the frequency response of the same speaker..measuring Bode diagram directly on the speaker.
1. Single ended valve.. no feedback .. the worst case to drive certain speaker because tube amplifier is copying the impedance graph of the speaker..ie. how straight is the speaker impedance curve, the same would be at the speaker, with the result of altered frequency response. resonance bump is copied to the output, it is not supressed, and raised imp. response would result the same, so boomy bass and raised mid- highs are outcome (not ok)
SE small power even worst (1-2 watts)
SE higher power (15W-20W SE RS1003) better, good bass , the best highs (dependig of the output transformer ofcourse, 100kHz+ needed)
2. Single ended valve with the feedback, better but still impedance curve is not supressed, slight boomy bass alse depending of the feedback
3. PP valve amp, hi power 40W , speaker impedance curve is supressed but still noticeable, good bass , highs are depending of the amplifier used. NFB is supressing more the peak but too much NFB is killing the sound. very good option.
4. Transistor amp PP, speaker impedance curve doest have too much effect in resulting frequency curve, good bass normal highs
4. Chip amp LM3875, the same like 3, good bass , normal highs
5. Class D amp, good bass , normal highs
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Want to clarify my amplifier.
PP with 50w per channel.
6550 tubes.
They give a detailed sound with good pressure in the bass.
Wonderful middle register.
Clean and detailed treble.
A10.2Maop is the best FR driver I've ever listened to. In a mini Onken box, they manage to carve out details that I have never heard before.
The speakers provide a depth in the soundscape where the instruments divide into depths and sideways that I have never heard before. Neither at home nor at trade fairs from much more expensive electronics and speakers.
I'm an avid hifi fan and love to get a 3d image of the music which I got from A11MS but still more from A10.2Maop. Both have that feature but A10.2Maop beats everything. So if you long for 3D and have electronics that can provide this, then these are the two you should invest in.
PP with 50w per channel.
6550 tubes.
They give a detailed sound with good pressure in the bass.
Wonderful middle register.
Clean and detailed treble.
A10.2Maop is the best FR driver I've ever listened to. In a mini Onken box, they manage to carve out details that I have never heard before.
The speakers provide a depth in the soundscape where the instruments divide into depths and sideways that I have never heard before. Neither at home nor at trade fairs from much more expensive electronics and speakers.
I'm an avid hifi fan and love to get a 3d image of the music which I got from A11MS but still more from A10.2Maop. Both have that feature but A10.2Maop beats everything. So if you long for 3D and have electronics that can provide this, then these are the two you should invest in.
Well, my tubes are class AB Push Pull with feedback, they are a Prima Luna Prologue 4 (a pair of EL34's in push-pull giving 35W a channel). The Class A transistor is a pair of ACA's now.
And i'm talking about what i hear, not technical. Class D is technical superior, but does not sound that good in many cases (in best cases to clinical clean), and can't often drive a fullrange driver without crossover to it's maximum performance. But for measurements i also use class D amps as they don't colour the sound, and class A and tubes does (but i like the colour). For me this all is about enjoying music, and i enjoy music more with a coloured sound than very clean. I want harmonic distortion, but in a controlled way.
I'd just add a point that seems to have been overlooked in the above -viz that a proportion of wideband drive units & the enclosures for these are actually designed from the outset for use with high output impedance amplifiers, and the effects of said are accounted for in the alignments, which are thrown out if used with a nominal voltage source. This is very much a question of context, so care must be taken that we don't make too many assumptions / over-generalisations.