Indeed, this is the ideal aim. However this ideal is unattainable, as there is no setup in the world that can reproduce even a single piano in a full realism. Therefore, compromises are mandatory, as to what aspect(s) one prefer to sound more realistic, within the limits of a real setup. Hence, personal preferences, since different people give importance to different aspects being more realistic.
As for those people who tune their setup to electronic music: "… … the two will never meet".
But maybe Ian participation is biased as he is selling modules. The price and excellent quality avoid me to buy it (need 2 or 3 modules)
In the beggining of my quest,hope, demand : I told about daughter boards around the core board. For the input, either for the output !
As both Vano & Set3up has the great merit to exist and to be gently shared by their fathers, i believe we have to stay in the "good enough" philosophy to have a result : I2S input core board... and put what you want before : usb/spidf/FGPA/DSD/ vynil arm... what you can !
It's about to do better and "good enough". At this moment we have no final pcb to share.
My two cents is in a V2 or more : technical improvment could be added. But now we first need a pcb and second to be check by a RF diyer to avoid the worst common errors. If we could succeed that, it should be an impressive result (we begann 2 mont ago ?... time is time !)
PS : I prefer Pleyel piano than the acid Steinway... personal flavors stay personal flavors but I love R. fripp guitars, as well K. Crimson 🙂
Do the coreboard of S3tup need a crystal design of yours , (sorry for my bad technical background, i have difficulty to follow between the general philosophical inputs and the technical one I have pain to understand as well.... ChewbackaAAAAAAAAA😀 - private joke with Ceglar... we have to battle against the revenge of the Siths....they have always their Black Stars...and no it's not the Jackson five...it's a massive sound reproduction systeme which make noise in the infinite space...with no air load 😱
)
In the beggining of my quest,hope, demand : I told about daughter boards around the core board. For the input, either for the output !
As both Vano & Set3up has the great merit to exist and to be gently shared by their fathers, i believe we have to stay in the "good enough" philosophy to have a result : I2S input core board... and put what you want before : usb/spidf/FGPA/DSD/ vynil arm... what you can !
It's about to do better and "good enough". At this moment we have no final pcb to share.
My two cents is in a V2 or more : technical improvment could be added. But now we first need a pcb and second to be check by a RF diyer to avoid the worst common errors. If we could succeed that, it should be an impressive result (we begann 2 mont ago ?... time is time !)
PS : I prefer Pleyel piano than the acid Steinway... personal flavors stay personal flavors but I love R. fripp guitars, as well K. Crimson 🙂
Do the coreboard of S3tup need a crystal design of yours , (sorry for my bad technical background, i have difficulty to follow between the general philosophical inputs and the technical one I have pain to understand as well.... ChewbackaAAAAAAAAA😀 - private joke with Ceglar... we have to battle against the revenge of the Siths....they have always their Black Stars...and no it's not the Jackson five...it's a massive sound reproduction systeme which make noise in the infinite space...with no air load 😱
)I find a new protocole to test the devices, components & circuits :
This music is the best one as it was writed for them :
PIERRE HENRY - Psyché Rock (Pre Futurama Theme) [HQ] - YouTube
And at the end the black Star explose... yes folk, George Lucas copy this video !
This music is the best one as it was writed for them :
PIERRE HENRY - Psyché Rock (Pre Futurama Theme) [HQ] - YouTube
And at the end the black Star explose... yes folk, George Lucas copy this video !
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I can fllood the fisch.... me too
I found two more sources for testing distorsions :
The first one is Pavarotti as he singed as a Massey Fergusson truck... but some likes him. If the wallsl stay in place, the room is good !
The second is this one :
Franck joue de la guitare avec sa chignole (perceuse). - Vidéo Dailymotion
I think I need a TDA1541 for this last one...
Of course I ever ask myself which technologies are the best for reproduce :
1- acoustical instrument : the crowing of the **** (male chicken) every morning in the landscape !
2- electronic instrument : a car with DJ music which brake with crisp in the street with police car with screaming warning horn (which is a pursuit in classical music term !)
It is the same if the both are reccorded and played after on a Hifi ! The rest is just about the age of the capitain: we know that acoustical instrument need more precision because we use to hear them often... not the crispy cars or electrical guitarr with hammer drill. At the end the need is the same ! For a classical music lover I would be more worried about my room acoustic and the neighbours' patience because the great dynamic amplitude...
All those people who listen classical music at 80 db peaks but looking for accuracy are... on the wrong way. The distorsion is caused by the speakers more than the DAC chip (if they have not a high efficienty 120 db speakers and the room for that I mean... after its just philosophy about the guy with the greater culture and best cd player : borring !)
I found two more sources for testing distorsions :
The first one is Pavarotti as he singed as a Massey Fergusson truck... but some likes him. If the wallsl stay in place, the room is good !
The second is this one :
Franck joue de la guitare avec sa chignole (perceuse). - Vidéo Dailymotion
I think I need a TDA1541 for this last one...
Of course I ever ask myself which technologies are the best for reproduce :
1- acoustical instrument : the crowing of the **** (male chicken) every morning in the landscape !
2- electronic instrument : a car with DJ music which brake with crisp in the street with police car with screaming warning horn (which is a pursuit in classical music term !)
It is the same if the both are reccorded and played after on a Hifi ! The rest is just about the age of the capitain: we know that acoustical instrument need more precision because we use to hear them often... not the crispy cars or electrical guitarr with hammer drill. At the end the need is the same ! For a classical music lover I would be more worried about my room acoustic and the neighbours' patience because the great dynamic amplitude...
All those people who listen classical music at 80 db peaks but looking for accuracy are... on the wrong way. The distorsion is caused by the speakers more than the DAC chip (if they have not a high efficienty 120 db speakers and the room for that I mean... after its just philosophy about the guy with the greater culture and best cd player : borring !)
Actually, what i did was build the circuit - as to be able to directly compare them both. I have heard both of them. My whole point was that you can't simply dismiss something until you try it. WRT the supplied schematic, I would suggest replacing the buffer portion, or deleting it completely (the 1k5 I/V will set the Zout for the stage and is about half that of the Zanden output impedance so no big deal). 5V rails makes it an easy setup and with the nulling of the offset via the CCS you can direct couple with some small amount of mVDC into a following stage/buffer/line input direct.
The same circuit compared with WE396A parafeed into permalloy TVC/AVC, but with keeping same current injection scheme. Its pretty close, mostly different flavour but at quite some added investment in complexity.
I think biasing method of the tube stage adds some colour to it, there are audible affects by having a large enough Rk. Remove 2mA CS from the 1541A output and use the offset to partially bias it at quite low grid bias, remove most of whats in the cathode circuit. Obviously with higher Gm tubes its advantageous to have some small resistance there to help with RF issues, predominate oscillations etc. This was some good advise from Mr T, and might seem a but odd.. but all you have to do is try it.
Without the current injection, Mr T's 6922 cct was clearly preferable, and d3A is where I have it now, mostly because I saw benefit in having the extra gain.
In the end theres more than one way to skin a cat… never just one, and never wrong just because it doesn't like up with what you might expect. In fact its my experience that disappointment and expectation go hand in hand.
regards,
Shane
This is a moment of advertising.... " the two... will never meet" :
The Art of Sounds (2007) - Pierre Henry - YouTube
It was easy to see Pierre Henri in Paris, sometimes him house was open for the lovers of music and devices... sometimes with no rdv...a very open mind for the father of electronic music ! And of course with a perfect knowledge of classical music.😀
Of course we can speak of the P. Henri's Studer player or speak again about the tda1541...
Tubes or solid state will come after the core board. It will be th etime to speak about distorsion flavors...
The Art of Sounds (2007) - Pierre Henry - YouTube
It was easy to see Pierre Henri in Paris, sometimes him house was open for the lovers of music and devices... sometimes with no rdv...a very open mind for the father of electronic music ! And of course with a perfect knowledge of classical music.😀
Of course we can speak of the P. Henri's Studer player or speak again about the tda1541...
Tubes or solid state will come after the core board. It will be th etime to speak about distorsion flavors...
Oh, pardonne moi, i've been busy with the jitter measurement rig.
LNA:
Without LNA:
With LNA:
The clock being measured:
VF70BH-T-50.000M PDF Datasheet - CTS Valpey Corporation - Datasheets360.com
Quoted for sub-1ps >1kHz. My measurements say 3.7pS >10Hz, 0.4ps >100Hz.
Yeah... Now i need to sleep.
Whew!
LNA:
Without LNA:
With LNA:
The clock being measured:
VF70BH-T-50.000M PDF Datasheet - CTS Valpey Corporation - Datasheets360.com
Quoted for sub-1ps >1kHz. My measurements say 3.7pS >10Hz, 0.4ps >100Hz.
Yeah... Now i need to sleep.
Whew!
Pedjas device AYA II but with the OP861 stage disconnected, so resistor I/V at 1541A output to tube stage parallel feed into TX-102mk3. The OPA861 uses CCS fed TL431 shunt regs and Black Gate Hi-Q NX final caps, you can see the provided schematic (who does that!?.. have you got permission!?). The supplies to the 1541A are different enough.
Front end is WaveIO USB to I2S > Ian FIFO > Ian Isolator> Ian dual XO with Crystek clocks > drives the tda1541 board with Ians I2S to PCM converter (simultaneous mode).
Jackson Five now !!.. ahhh, and the hits just keep on coming ! (not from them, oops. well, not oops I wasn't the live-in doc .. oh no!!.. bad taste, yeah but not like .. awe never mind)
Regards,
Shane
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You are a fanatic Shane 😀!
Sad the Black Gate NX & N are not sourcable anymore. I have just two 33 uf/16V N serie... they do a miracle for feeding the ^FGPA device which manage the spidf on the SqueezeBox Duet... a good combo here with a polymer ! Exceptionnel ! Don't understand BB want not to produce today an audio line caps ! nichicon win this niche ?!
I like all those fanatics from many different country here who share around an old dac chip with modern consideration around a goodwilled mind... I call this collaborative art... (sorry some frenchs see art everywhere e.g. a metro (underground) ticket...or camembert : listen to Gong (the band) : electric camenbert...😱)
I hope if a core board succeed with the work of SET3up or maybe Vanofonk and could be shared via a little GB or a web print plateform as VanoFonk use, more diyers will join this "artistry event" (let us dream please, positivists can change the world sometimes for small things) to improve the concept step by step ! I hope we can go to the next step soon : a core board checked by a diya fellow special in RF !
@ all : did you see the test than Peufeu Fellow maid on the SolidState section about noise and regulators... very interesting !
Sad the Black Gate NX & N are not sourcable anymore. I have just two 33 uf/16V N serie... they do a miracle for feeding the ^FGPA device which manage the spidf on the SqueezeBox Duet... a good combo here with a polymer ! Exceptionnel ! Don't understand BB want not to produce today an audio line caps ! nichicon win this niche ?!
I like all those fanatics from many different country here who share around an old dac chip with modern consideration around a goodwilled mind... I call this collaborative art... (sorry some frenchs see art everywhere e.g. a metro (underground) ticket...or camembert : listen to Gong (the band) : electric camenbert...😱)
I hope if a core board succeed with the work of SET3up or maybe Vanofonk and could be shared via a little GB or a web print plateform as VanoFonk use, more diyers will join this "artistry event" (let us dream please, positivists can change the world sometimes for small things) to improve the concept step by step ! I hope we can go to the next step soon : a core board checked by a diya fellow special in RF !
@ all : did you see the test than Peufeu Fellow maid on the SolidState section about noise and regulators... very interesting !
This is true, i've been listening to this configuration for quite some time now and am still loving the sound and how well it can differentiate the quality of the albums/recordings. Every time i change the album, the apparent sound of the system changes making it very easy to tell the level of quality of the recording.
Sorry, but I cant offer any distortion measurements, etc. But from what i have learn't along the way i gained the most performance (listening) when I reduced jitter using Ians FIFO. The CEN i/v stage was a good step up from a tube SRPP i/v.
Pretty sure i've uploaded this photo somewhere on another thread but in case anyone is interested and it helps this project in anyway, here it is again. My design goals have been simplicity. Oh and this is a prototype... 2 years and counting.
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hey mate, have you tried the up sampling from native 44.1 to 192k thing ?? I'm liking it quite some.. off topic perhaps.
Hi SET3UP, VANOFONK, all,
I have a good news today : Marce fellow agree to help us the day we will need him (I hope to check the pcb core board shared when it will be ready). He is a specialist (him job) in RF designing (pcbs and all the things I can't understand myself), according to his agenda and free time (job first). Him help will be important to avoid the worst layout issues and to check EMC, RF if he want !
We have sweedischs, italians, israeli, french, britanic, australian, american, dutchs.... a good trip 🙂 . Hope Nazar and SSerg will keep the train if they read us for good inputs ! It's just for a "good enough" TDA1541 pcb core board, not a SOTA but better than the crap kit on EBAY for the DIYAUDIO folks
SET3up : for the moment is it a good idea to share your crystal layout design with Andrea_Mori ? After all this is collaborative. What do you prefer, share a V1 then experienced fellows have a look on it or share before to save time for improvement ? I don't know what is the best... just my two cents, but I'm always think collaborativ is the best way.
As you like of course ! Andrea Mori has designed something about TDA1541 & clock (I'm not talking here about FIFO but its special "crystal"... kryptonit ?... wow what a great culture
I'am for the reconciliation of Strange comics & Husserl phenomenologie...around a glass of whisky and music! ... I have to stop drinking at the lunch 🙄)
I have a good news today : Marce fellow agree to help us the day we will need him (I hope to check the pcb core board shared when it will be ready). He is a specialist (him job) in RF designing (pcbs and all the things I can't understand myself), according to his agenda and free time (job first). Him help will be important to avoid the worst layout issues and to check EMC, RF if he want !
We have sweedischs, italians, israeli, french, britanic, australian, american, dutchs.... a good trip 🙂 . Hope Nazar and SSerg will keep the train if they read us for good inputs ! It's just for a "good enough" TDA1541 pcb core board, not a SOTA but better than the crap kit on EBAY for the DIYAUDIO folks
SET3up : for the moment is it a good idea to share your crystal layout design with Andrea_Mori ? After all this is collaborative. What do you prefer, share a V1 then experienced fellows have a look on it or share before to save time for improvement ? I don't know what is the best... just my two cents, but I'm always think collaborativ is the best way.
As you like of course ! Andrea Mori has designed something about TDA1541 & clock (I'm not talking here about FIFO but its special "crystal"... kryptonit ?... wow what a great culture
I'am for the reconciliation of Strange comics & Husserl phenomenologie...around a glass of whisky and music! ... I have to stop drinking at the lunch 🙄)
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Eldam,
clock is an ugly beast, I'm experimenting around the last year, but I'm not yet satisfied from the result. BTW, some months ago I sent one of my Laptech crystal to a dutch guy that tested the crystal in his Clapp oscillator. He told me the Laptech crystal is one of the best device he had ever tested. With another crystal from Quarz-Teknik fitted in his oscillator he measured -130dBc@10Hz! Not very simple to reach such that result with a fundamental AT-cut crystal at 11.2896MHz. From the specs the Laptech is better than the QT crystal. I can access to an Agilent E5052B (if I remember correctly) in a university lab to do the measurement, but my times are usually long, since I have only a little free time.
BTW, I have some ready PCB of the dutch guy's oscillator ready to mount and test.
Now I'm busy with the tube IV/output stage, so the work around the oscillator circuit is temporarily suspended.
Anyway, I'm happy to share all my experiments useful for the TDA project: the oscillator from the dutch guy with Laptech custom crystal, the tube output stage (that will be not very cheap), and maybe a regulator I developed with the great help of Thorsten.
clock is an ugly beast, I'm experimenting around the last year, but I'm not yet satisfied from the result. BTW, some months ago I sent one of my Laptech crystal to a dutch guy that tested the crystal in his Clapp oscillator. He told me the Laptech crystal is one of the best device he had ever tested. With another crystal from Quarz-Teknik fitted in his oscillator he measured -130dBc@10Hz! Not very simple to reach such that result with a fundamental AT-cut crystal at 11.2896MHz. From the specs the Laptech is better than the QT crystal. I can access to an Agilent E5052B (if I remember correctly) in a university lab to do the measurement, but my times are usually long, since I have only a little free time.
BTW, I have some ready PCB of the dutch guy's oscillator ready to mount and test.
Now I'm busy with the tube IV/output stage, so the work around the oscillator circuit is temporarily suspended.
Anyway, I'm happy to share all my experiments useful for the TDA project: the oscillator from the dutch guy with Laptech custom crystal, the tube output stage (that will be not very cheap), and maybe a regulator I developed with the great help of Thorsten.
Well done! That's some sweet grounding and bypassing! 😎
It's a great foundation to build from and lotsa room for growin' (DEM, reCLK, on-board regs, ...)!
... got any extras? 😉
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Well done! That's some sweet grounding and bypassing! 😎
It's a great foundation to build from and lotsa room for growin' (DEM, reCLK, on-board regs, ...)!
Thank you sir.
Unfortunately no spares as they are quite time consuming to make.
But if your interested I may be able to help you out with a black and white layout so you can print it off and use the toner transfer method and etch the board yourself. Send me a PM if interested.
Sorry, a bit off topic.
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