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First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
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Old 17th December 2020, 02:31 PM   #531
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
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Originally Posted by TNT View Post
That backfired
Oh it worked as I intended. I thought the irony was delicious.
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Old 17th December 2020, 03:06 PM   #532
Ultima Thule is offline Ultima Thule  Europe
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
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Originally Posted by chip_mk View Post
Enjoy your simulated amps.
Today, every self-respecting audio engineer begins designing an audio amplifier by debugging a circuit in a simulator. What is the point of building a printed circuit board for a circuit from which it is impossible to obtain the parameters necessary for today. “Yesterday AMP” with good parameters in the steady-state mode, but with “dead” sound, nobody needs today.
Those who are not friends with the simulator, but rely only on chance, can only sympathize
I really hope that everyone who really understands development, unlike bimo, has found useful information for himself.
Well petr_2009, it seems you have found yourself as well a delusional comfort zone in SimCity which you apparently are afraid to crawl out of despite having been requested a few times by me and others to show us a real amplifier of yours with pictures, measurements and real world explanations.

I already asked couple of times, Here and Here, which you pretended you didn't see, so when will we see any real data from you beyond endless simulations and anecdotes about other peoples amplifiers... or are you afraid it will hurt too much when your little sim bubble bursts?
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Old 17th December 2020, 06:31 PM   #533
fagos is offline fagos
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Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
More than 50 years ago, Baksandall investigated the slew rate of real signals at the output of amplifiers and did not find it higher than 0.5 V / μs. According to fagos, amplifiers with SR = 1 V / μs must fully meet the high quality amplification requirements. Fagos, the TDA2030 fully meets your requirements with a tenfold margin
First, stop fantasizing. I did not write any calculations on the sufficiency of the slew rate, I do not need to attribute my speculations. You'd better take it yourself and, from an engineering point of view, substantiate the figure 100 V/us, and not refer to John Сurl.
In the post you quoted, JC kind of hints to you that there is no point in chasing sky-high slew rates. You can - well, no - that's enough. No one here denies that the slew rate should be appropriate for the task at hand, but you are fixated on it and don't want to see anything else.
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Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
Another important difference between axleless amplifiers is the behavior of the output impedance; they react to external influences instantly - without a phase shift, which is inevitable in amplifiers with NFB having the first pole below 200 kHz (AMP Hiraga)
Graham also paid attention to the behavior of the output resistance (impedance).
All other things being equal, amplifiers with lower signal propagation delay sound better. This has been confirmed by numerous colleagues who have asked me for help in finalizing their amplifiers.
The most indicative would be a variant with the same amplifier bandwidth, but one with a low pole and a greater NFB depth at low frequencies, and the second with a high pole and the same NFB depth throughout the entire range to the pole. And your options differ in both NFB depth and bandwidth. In total, your experiment is not indicative and contains too many influencing factors that you simply ignore, because they do not fit into your mainstream of conclusions.

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Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
I just tried to show on the simulation results what Graham claimed, but he never found understanding. On this I bow, everyone can remain with their delusions. Continue making amplifiers without paying attention to Group Delay, only then don't be surprised that your creation does not sound the best. Although for mp3 with 128 bitrate will do.
This is how you summarized and all at once practically praised everyone as illiterate, did I understand correctly? At the same time, they themselves modestly kept silent and did not show any real measurements made by you after three times questions about it. And how can you have a constructive dialogue and competent technical dispute? You take everything as a personal insult, while you do not consider the opinions of others and openly insult them.
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:19 AM   #534
petr_2009 is offline petr_2009  South Korea
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Originally Posted by scottjoplin View Post
petr, you keep mentioning the improvement in sound but you haven't described it or why it might be.
Seeming sound sources tell you about anything? (when the musicians are localized on the stage and become tangible), the depth of the stage, microdynamics (after-sound, etc.), the transparency of the sound. Anyone who understands sound will immediately feel the difference ...
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Old 18th December 2020, 03:56 AM   #535
petr_2009 is offline petr_2009  South Korea
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Originally Posted by fagos View Post
The most indicative would be a variant with the same amplifier bandwidth, but one with a low pole and a greater NFB depth at low frequencies, and the second with a high pole and the same NFB depth throughout the entire range to the pole.
How do the examples I give do not meet your requirements? If mine doesn't suit you - bring yours and prove otherwise
or do you not understand what you are talking about? writing to show off?
Attached Images
File Type: png Self-1_Loop-Gain.png (33.3 KB, 117 views)
File Type: png Self-2_Loop-Gain.png (34.3 KB, 114 views)

Last edited by petr_2009; 18th December 2020 at 04:00 AM.
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Old 18th December 2020, 04:23 AM   #536
petr_2009 is offline petr_2009  South Korea
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Originally Posted by Ultima Thule View Post
which you pretended you didn't see, so when will we see any real data from you beyond endless simulations and anecdotes about other peoples amplifiers... or are you afraid it will hurt too much when your little sim bubble bursts?
unlike the talkers, I do specific things. Here is the result of checking one of the amplifiers
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File Type: jpg Hafler_signal-АB .jpg (39.6 KB, 116 views)
File Type: jpg Hafler_signal-АB_Cdom-15pF.jpg (40.1 KB, 115 views)
File Type: jpg Hafler_signal-АB_Cdom-62pF.jpg (40.3 KB, 112 views)
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Old 18th December 2020, 10:27 AM   #537
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petr_2009 View Post
Seeming sound sources tell you about anything? (when the musicians are localized on the stage and become tangible), the depth of the stage, microdynamics (after-sound, etc.), the transparency of the sound. Anyone who understands sound will immediately feel the difference ...
Those sound like timing issues and yet the system is already bandwidth limited, what is your explanation for the perceived differences?
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Old 18th December 2020, 11:19 AM   #538
Markw4 is offline Markw4  United States
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Timing issues, or reduced non-stationary low-level noise and distortion because of less disturbance of amplifier linearity/stationarity by the same old environmental RF incursion that's always there?

Also, please consider that a standard audio FFT is not necessarily a very accurate way to measure such effects.

Last edited by Markw4; 18th December 2020 at 11:22 AM.
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Old 18th December 2020, 11:26 AM   #539
billshurv is offline billshurv  United Kingdom
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First cycle distortion - Graham, what is that?
If one has RF incursion problems surely the works of H.Ott is the place to start?
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Old 18th December 2020, 12:23 PM   #540
scottjoplin is offline scottjoplin  Wales
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Remember Pavel's preamplifier listening test? IIRC, RF didn't enter into the discussion.
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