I got my new lamp. It is for commercial projection use. people use it to replace the

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prime

Member
Joined 2004
Ballast + lamp testing

Here are the results of the voltage and current testing we did yesterday.

We could only get accurate readings for AC current from the PMA161X and now that ywh has stated that it is an AC ballast it makes sense.

Assumption: the lamps from ywh are in fact 250W AC lamps. ywh has now stated that they are AC.

Test 1: PMA161X + YWH 250W lamp
Code: 
Input volts            = 244.8 V
Input running current  = 0.68 A
Input start current    = 0.34 A AC
Input W                = 0.68 A x 244.8 V = 166.464 W
Output Volts           = 71.3 V
Output Current         = 2.36 A AC
Output W               = 2.36A x 71.3 v   = 168W

Test 2: 150W eballast + YWH 250W lamp
Code: 
Input volts            = 243.5 V
Input running current  = 0.60  A
Input W                = 146.1 W
Output Volts           = 70.3  V
Output Current         = 2.19  A AC
Output W               = 153.9 W

Test 3: 150W eballast + HQI-T 150W lamp
Code: 
Input volts            = 242.8 V
Input running current  = 0.62  A
Input W                = 150.5 W
Output Volts           = 98.6  V
Output Current         = 1.62  A AC
Output W               = 159.7 W


Test 4: HPS 423W magnetic ballast + HQI-TS 400W Daylight (5200K)
Code: 
Input volts            = 245.1 V
Input running current  = 2.16  A
Input W                = 529   W
Output Volts           = 138.1 V
Output Current         = 3.8   A AC
Output W               = 524   W  (overdriving the lamp!)


I think this shows that the Ushio PMA161X ballast is in fact a 160W AC ballast.


What to do now?
1: Get a 250W electronic ballast so I can use the 250W lamps to there full luminace but shortened life potential.
or
2: Ask ywh to source a 250W DC ballast + 250W DC lamps.
 
P

prime

Member
Joined 2004
measuring the current - switched out of circuit. We could have used the clampmeter we had for AC but we didn't know it was AC then.
 

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slodki

Member
Joined 2005
Prime,

How much do you think the 250w ballast will shorten the life? stated life was at 1000 hours from manufacturer wasnt it? do you think it will be around there, or even shorter?

The 2500 hours mentioned is from the 150w ballast powering the bulb yes?

Thank for all the info so far. Much appreciated!
 
M

minoten

Member
Joined 2004
Prime,

I am very impressed with your work so far, you are answering many many questions that have up until now been unanswered.

Keep up the hard work, I appreciate it and find it very informative and I am sure everyone else interested in these bulbs and ballasts agrees with me.
 
P

prime

Member
Joined 2004
minoten said:
Keep up the hard work
Click to expand...

Thanks minoten, glad to be off help. maybe if I stop spending so much money on lighting I could get one of your WUXGA kits. ;)

rth said:
Prime, I'll give you a thousand bucks for those ballasts... they're creating energy! :bigeyes: :D

My guess is that the ballast output voltage is not a sine wave but more of a triangle wave and is tricking the meter into thinking that the rms voltage is higher than it actually is. You don't happen to have an o-scope, do you? :)
Click to expand...

Hi rth, I was wondering what your response would be.
For my next trick I'll setup some cold fusion in a glass of water. :) plenty of free energy for everyone.

It was only my intention to show that the 161X was infact a 160W ballast and not a 250W as we hoped. My friend suggested that it was something to do with harmonics caused by the ballast or the arc that were throwing off the measurements. Also the input voltage was changing all the time too. As you say, you can't create energy, so just measuring the input current and voltage should have been enough. No I don't have an o-scope and this little exercise has already over-stretched my electronics knowledge. Getting into wave forms is just beyond me.

Might just have been the beer we were drinking too! Does alcohol and high voltage mix well? :)
 
P

prime

Member
Joined 2004
slodki said:
Prime,

How much do you think the 250w ballast will shorten the life? stated life was at 1000 hours from manufacturer wasnt it? do you think it will be around there, or even shorter?

The 2500 hours mentioned is from the 150w ballast powering the bulb yes?
Click to expand...


slodki,

A 250W AC ballast won't shorten the life of the 250 AC lamps that we have. They should run for there normal life expectancy, unfortunatly we don't really know what that life expectancy really is. If they are AC lamps then they are designed for AC ballasts.

I said "shortened life" because from my (limited) understanding an AC lamp has a shorter life than DC lamps of the same spec. I'm only basing this on the graph titled "Screen Luminous Flux Maintenance Ratio" from http://www1.ushio.co.jp/catalog/100e/1035.html. It shows that AC lamps lose their brightness quicker than dc lamps (but this looks like marketing propaganda too). I think we should expect about 2000 hours. Also note that these lamps are not from ushio.


YWH - Can you please update us on how long these 250W AC lamps will run on an 250 AC ballast?
 
I

I_eat_flowers

Member
Joined 2004
wohoooo

@ 18wheeler and YWH and prime

that are really breakin' news. I've posted this thread in the German diy-community.de.

BIG THX for that caus here in Germany we had the same discussion and weren't able to find an oem supplier.

There were various ppl here which have modded commercial pj's w common eballast and a Osram 150 HSD ( arc gap 5 mm) respectively auto HID 35-50 W (Xenon) also gave impressive results.

They stripped the 150 W lamp and retro fit them in the former reflector.

Thx again for the nice work and being so kind to sell the stuff to the community.
Well, that's a good example of "globalization". ;-)

That'll help us to go around the "lamp-mafia".....

ief
 
Y

ywh

Member
Joined 2002
gzmoovi.com
I have went back to the place I got lamps. Finally he told me all
their electronic ballasts(250W DC ballast) were set below 200W as default.
there are a few resisters can be changed so that the power can be raised to 250W.
but that will increase the heat. the cooling fan will be needed.I think that heat is probably the reason why they don't have 'real' 250W ballasts.
Unfortanatly the 250w ballast from the 'brand-name' are not available here.
 
1

18wheeler

Member
Joined 2003
diypro.us
prime said:



slodki,

A 250W AC ballast won't shorten the life of the 250 AC lamps that we have. They should run for there normal life expectancy, unfortunatly we don't really know what that life expectancy really is. If they are AC lamps then they are designed for AC ballasts.


YWH - Can you please update us on how long these 250W AC lamps will run on an 250 AC ballast?
Click to expand...


I went back to ywh's post about the listed lamp life. Just realized the spec was copied from a chinese document, and shown up as scrembled charecters.

The lamps below 180W have 1000 hr; 250W has 900hr, and 400W has 750hr. I assume that is when it is run under rated power.

during my comunication with ywh yesterday, it appears that the 2500hr life span was obtained from the 150W ballast + 250w lamp setup.

(and to add more confusion, in the same spec sheet, there listed another bunch of similar lamps with 2000 hr life, HOWEVER, there are 275w lamps among them instead of 250W. do we have enough headache?)
 
1

18wheeler

Member
Joined 2003
diypro.us
Re: wohoooo

IEF, thanks for spreading word. I like your work on the light engine.

but I will suggest you preceed with caution right now. we are having confusion about ballast power. lamps themself seem to be a good DIY subject, problem is to find a real electronic ballast to run them in full power.

So, I will encourge people to order the lamp and try them on their own ballast. If the lamp is not compatible, you can always return the lamp, as long as it doesn't explored and still looks new. and you only lost shipping ($5 x 2 for two way). That might be the fastest way we find a workable ballast.

I_eat_flowers said:
@ 18wheeler and YWH and prime

that are really breakin' news. I've posted this thread in the German diy-community.de.

BIG THX for that caus here in Germany we had the same discussion and weren't able to find an oem supplier.

There were various ppl here which have modded commercial pj's w common eballast and a Osram 150 HSD ( arc gap 5 mm) respectively auto HID 35-50 W (Xenon) also gave impressive results.

They stripped the 150 W lamp and retro fit them in the former reflector.

Thx again for the nice work and being so kind to sell the stuff to the community.
Well, that's a good example of "globalization". ;-)

That'll help us to go around the "lamp-mafia".....

ief
Click to expand...
 
S

shlomid

Member
Joined 2004
YWH

ywh said:
I have went back to the place I got lamps. Finally he told me all
their electronic ballasts(250W DC ballast) were set below 200W as default.
there are a few resisters can be changed so that the power can be raised to 250W.
but that will increase the heat. the cooling fan will be needed.I think that heat is probably the reason why they don't have 'real' 250W ballasts.
Unfortanatly the 250w ballast from the 'brand-name' are not available here.
Click to expand...
:confused:
You talk about the DC ballast,but the ballast that you sent is AC not DC.
what is the problem? if we can add fan there will no problem with the heat, right...?


18wheeler
if I understand you, the info about the life of the lamp is about the AC lamp.
what about the life of DC lamps?
can we get DC lamp and ballast?

Thanks
Shlomid
 
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