Hello Martin,
If all the measurement equipment that was used to develop your gear was inside a metal enclosure it would be strange not to use something similar for your build.
I see some of your wires from supllies to circuits are rather long . Twisting ac wires from your transformer could also help.
If ucpure is the most important supply, that should be the one closest to the " consumer"
It should be possible to create a kind of platform above the big caps that will allow you to create much shorter lengths for the power supply connections.
Gabster showed us that there are boards causing garbage all-around so they should be very well isolated or be installed at some distance. Ian did design some boards to allow this.
Greetings Eduard
If all the measurement equipment that was used to develop your gear was inside a metal enclosure it would be strange not to use something similar for your build.
I see some of your wires from supllies to circuits are rather long . Twisting ac wires from your transformer could also help.
If ucpure is the most important supply, that should be the one closest to the " consumer"
It should be possible to create a kind of platform above the big caps that will allow you to create much shorter lengths for the power supply connections.
Gabster showed us that there are boards causing garbage all-around so they should be very well isolated or be installed at some distance. Ian did design some boards to allow this.
Greetings Eduard
@Martin923
Looking at your list of components I see the Ian stack includes a Ian DAC board (fed by the Q7) while the alternative route is digital out via the PI2AES where you use the Denafrips as DAC ?
Where does the PI2AES get its data from ?
Like @eduard mentions .. tiwsted wires are good but looking at the picture again ..
You use twisted wires for individual + and - lines but you did not twist the + and - together .. that makes a difference too.
Looking at your list of components I see the Ian stack includes a Ian DAC board (fed by the Q7) while the alternative route is digital out via the PI2AES where you use the Denafrips as DAC ?
Where does the PI2AES get its data from ?
Like @eduard mentions .. tiwsted wires are good but looking at the picture again ..
You use twisted wires for individual + and - lines but you did not twist the + and - together .. that makes a difference too.
Hi Oystein,
I happened to have two RPI 4b on hand. Both the Pi2aes/Ares II and Ian's stack are fed by their own RPI 4b with Moode audio. So it is as follow:
My reference is RPI 4b to PI2aes to Ares II to pre amp input 1
Project test bed is RPI 4b to Q7 reclocked by SC Pure synchronious to dual mono DAC to OPA861 to preamp input 2.
This set up allows me to sound test and switch on the fly simply by switching preamp inputs while playing same track on both RPI at the same time.
I happened to have two RPI 4b on hand. Both the Pi2aes/Ares II and Ian's stack are fed by their own RPI 4b with Moode audio. So it is as follow:
My reference is RPI 4b to PI2aes to Ares II to pre amp input 1
Project test bed is RPI 4b to Q7 reclocked by SC Pure synchronious to dual mono DAC to OPA861 to preamp input 2.
This set up allows me to sound test and switch on the fly simply by switching preamp inputs while playing same track on both RPI at the same time.
In this case you are also comparing the Ian DAC to the Denafrips ...
It would make a "better?" comparison if you could include an TransportPiAES and have both systems feed the digital signal to the Denafrips.
Then you would see if there is already an advantage in the digital domain ... after that you can choose the best DAC --> Denafrips or ES9038Q2M.
It would make a "better?" comparison if you could include an TransportPiAES and have both systems feed the digital signal to the Denafrips.
Then you would see if there is already an advantage in the digital domain ... after that you can choose the best DAC --> Denafrips or ES9038Q2M.
Hmm @Martin923
I have a similar Ian set up on the way. This isn’t the “review” I was hoping to see.
I had an Ares2 awhile ago. It was just ok.
I quickly went to the Pontus 2. Then I heard the R26 while demoing the Venus2 and quickly bought the R26. It was better than the Pontus by far and equal to the Venus2 (except 1/3 the price) Now because of DSD I’ve switched to the A26.
I am hoping that the Ian set up is at least comparable…
I have a similar Ian set up on the way. This isn’t the “review” I was hoping to see.
I had an Ares2 awhile ago. It was just ok.
I quickly went to the Pontus 2. Then I heard the R26 while demoing the Venus2 and quickly bought the R26. It was better than the Pontus by far and equal to the Venus2 (except 1/3 the price) Now because of DSD I’ve switched to the A26.
I am hoping that the Ian set up is at least comparable…
Hi Martin,
well at first glance your build looked quite reasonable, until I noticed that you're operating it on a PILLOW?? Of course it would sound uninteresting, no matter how many / how big capacitors you throw at it.
It's pitiful to see so many very handy and skilled DIYers putting this much effort (and money), just then to absolutely neglect (ruin) one of the primary domains of any component, which is its resonance control. Why do you all think there is big part of the whole hifi industry dedicated to component feet, pads and other resonance controlling parts? That it all must be just a snake oil, worthy of ignoring it altogether? None of you were even remotely interested, what could some $1-3-5k spikes/pads bring into the mix? Or how it is possible that they sell for these kind of prices? I'm not justifying some outrageous prices, which are clearly a rip-off, but if so many people hear their contributions worthy of such a price tag, then it must be something in it, or not?
And meanwhile, it could be such a >LOW< hanging fruit (financially speaking) to get things right, at least to 60-70% of the max possible benefit. Some decent spikes/pads are literally going for tens of $ and already make a huge difference. To get it on scale, in comparison the UcConditioner brought to the PurePi 3.3V out just negligible benefits, what could a proper resonance management bring for the PurePi-based streamer (or any other component for that matter).
Get a solid base on solid feet, put on it 4 half-decent cones and then put your build on top of it. Once you stabilize your board with these sensitive components and hear this revelatory transformation, then we can start discussing, how to improve it further. Because as I see it, no matter what anybody (or thousands of people in forums, reviews, articles...) tells to a person, he/she will start doing things differently only after they experience it themselves.
well at first glance your build looked quite reasonable, until I noticed that you're operating it on a PILLOW?? Of course it would sound uninteresting, no matter how many / how big capacitors you throw at it.
It's pitiful to see so many very handy and skilled DIYers putting this much effort (and money), just then to absolutely neglect (ruin) one of the primary domains of any component, which is its resonance control. Why do you all think there is big part of the whole hifi industry dedicated to component feet, pads and other resonance controlling parts? That it all must be just a snake oil, worthy of ignoring it altogether? None of you were even remotely interested, what could some $1-3-5k spikes/pads bring into the mix? Or how it is possible that they sell for these kind of prices? I'm not justifying some outrageous prices, which are clearly a rip-off, but if so many people hear their contributions worthy of such a price tag, then it must be something in it, or not?
And meanwhile, it could be such a >LOW< hanging fruit (financially speaking) to get things right, at least to 60-70% of the max possible benefit. Some decent spikes/pads are literally going for tens of $ and already make a huge difference. To get it on scale, in comparison the UcConditioner brought to the PurePi 3.3V out just negligible benefits, what could a proper resonance management bring for the PurePi-based streamer (or any other component for that matter).
Get a solid base on solid feet, put on it 4 half-decent cones and then put your build on top of it. Once you stabilize your board with these sensitive components and hear this revelatory transformation, then we can start discussing, how to improve it further. Because as I see it, no matter what anybody (or thousands of people in forums, reviews, articles...) tells to a person, he/she will start doing things differently only after they experience it themselves.
Hello,
I saw in the test set up photo that the cinch output are being used. If i remember right the manual states they are only there for test purposes.
Of course using boards from different suppliers in the " wrong mix " will probably give you mediocre sound.
In the past i recommend Tent shunt boards to people who want to create a very good supply in a limited place. Using a few individual power supplies all having the seize of a mini shoebox would probably require local decoupling at the " consuming boards" too. Being told that power supply is crucial one should execute them properly as well. Like the small supercaps should be soldered close to perfect at least.
Close to impossible to compare things if they are installed in a way that is just enough to see if it works.
What will work In a mancave might not work in a living room filled with poluting gear. One dac board might need more attention to work properly.
And if someone tells you this is better than that how much value should one attach to that. If money is involved just trust nobody.
The majority of companies are there to make money. It is as simple as that.
Usually a good indication if someone 's judgement should be of any value to you is looking that the other gear they are using. If they still also use a turntable that is a positive thing for me.
If they have the old RCA handbook would be nice too.
Greetings Eduard
I saw in the test set up photo that the cinch output are being used. If i remember right the manual states they are only there for test purposes.
Of course using boards from different suppliers in the " wrong mix " will probably give you mediocre sound.
In the past i recommend Tent shunt boards to people who want to create a very good supply in a limited place. Using a few individual power supplies all having the seize of a mini shoebox would probably require local decoupling at the " consuming boards" too. Being told that power supply is crucial one should execute them properly as well. Like the small supercaps should be soldered close to perfect at least.
Close to impossible to compare things if they are installed in a way that is just enough to see if it works.
What will work In a mancave might not work in a living room filled with poluting gear. One dac board might need more attention to work properly.
And if someone tells you this is better than that how much value should one attach to that. If money is involved just trust nobody.
The majority of companies are there to make money. It is as simple as that.
Usually a good indication if someone 's judgement should be of any value to you is looking that the other gear they are using. If they still also use a turntable that is a positive thing for me.
If they have the old RCA handbook would be nice too.
Greetings Eduard
...from Ian's opa861 i/v manual: J5,J6 is not recommended for serious listening...for test only. ... did you tried xlr's ?
@camrector Haha yeah, that's right. The point is that improper resonance control can also ruin otherwise wonderful gear. I don't know how good Ian's DAC is, but even my $20k+ DAC can sound so much crappier with the wrong pads, it's hilarious to hear the sheer magnitude of the difference.
@Martin923
I didn't mean to be mean or anything like that. I was just to raise (your and also general) awareness that without a proper resonance control implementation, then clean/clear/resolving/dynamic = enjoyable sound cannot be fully expected, so any real evaluations shouldn't be even considered.
If it didn't make such a world of difference, I wouldn't be spending last couple of years of perfecting it.
This is most of the materials I tried ONLY for the streamer. And there are other 18 devices & cables in my chain, where I implemented effective resonance control with different materials/components.
@Martin923
I didn't mean to be mean or anything like that. I was just to raise (your and also general) awareness that without a proper resonance control implementation, then clean/clear/resolving/dynamic = enjoyable sound cannot be fully expected, so any real evaluations shouldn't be even considered.
If it didn't make such a world of difference, I wouldn't be spending last couple of years of perfecting it.
This is most of the materials I tried ONLY for the streamer. And there are other 18 devices & cables in my chain, where I implemented effective resonance control with different materials/components.
Hi Stephen.
I've not used Jriver for quite some time but......
Does it happen with mixed resolution playlists?
Could be an issue of the Q7 switching clocks.
Have you tried setting the Q7 through the MonitorPi pro to continuous clocks (clocks always on).
Other than that unless anyone else has resolved a similar issue we'd better call Saul (Ian)
First congratulations on getting it working.
I agree with other comments regarding twisting your +- and AC wires, and vibration isolation. I believe these will make a very small difference. That said, everything matters and it all adds up.
One area I do not see discussion is the SCPure clock making a loose connection in the sockets. I wonder if that is an area for more substantial sound improvement. I have no experience with Ian's clocks, but I do use similar performing clocks. I have experienced substantial sound degradation resulting from poor clock connectors and in the ufl connectors. Loose connections in my case did not stop the sound, but completely collapsed the sound stage and transparency. If these connections are anything but firm, I would be putting a slight bend in the pins to add some pressure in the socket. Clearly take care to avoid damage. A pair of plyers should support the pin and a second set put a slight bend at the end to facilitate slight tension on installation. If you have removed and replaced ufl connectors a few times, consider new ones.
Please feel free to share your thoughts and discoveries regarding resonance control.
It's something that I'm just starting to turn my thoughts to so some pointers would be much appreciated.
Hi Wladimir
Those are some very interesting observations and must have involved a lot of listening test with that many different types of feet🙂
Where did you gain the best improvement in SQ for a DAC/Streamer? Coupled or de-coupled feet?
BTW: You system looks really good 🙂
Regards Mikkel
@Martin923
Just an observation.
I have no experience of the Denafrips Ares II, but I do have experience of using the Pi2AES (both AES and I2S outputs) into the Gustard R26.
After building Ian's streamer stack:
I can categorically state that, in my circumstances, Ian's streamer stack (into the Gustard R26) is comprehensively better than the Pi2AES in all aspects of sound quality.
The other thing to be aware of is that the Denafrips DAC's will reclock every input - meaning that you will not see much benefit from improved clocks in Ian's components.
Just an observation.
I have no experience of the Denafrips Ares II, but I do have experience of using the Pi2AES (both AES and I2S outputs) into the Gustard R26.
After building Ian's streamer stack:
- PurePI
- FifoPiQ7 (SC-Cut clocks)
- HDMIPi Pro
- UcConditioner 3.3v
I can categorically state that, in my circumstances, Ian's streamer stack (into the Gustard R26) is comprehensively better than the Pi2AES in all aspects of sound quality.
The other thing to be aware of is that the Denafrips DAC's will reclock every input - meaning that you will not see much benefit from improved clocks in Ian's components.
@Martin923 I also have experience with Ares II, and it was way inferior to Ian Canada stack. I run a similar setup to yours with UcPure, SC-Pure, Dual Mono Dac and OPA board. Something seems really wrong.
1. First thing do not use the single-ended outputs as they are not meant for high-quality audio, which is clearly stated in the manual.
2. Did you configure the Dac board according to the instructions in the manual in the section "How to produce the best sound quality from your ES9038Q2M Dual Mono II DAC"?
3. The power supply wires from UcConditioner power supplies to the OPA board are quite long which may reduce the benefit of using UcCondi. They also run very close to the RaspberryPi which is the source of a lot of noise, and these cables probably act as good antennas. Try to reposition the power supplies for OPA much closer to the OPA board, far away from RaspberryPi, and make these cables shorter.
4. Vibration isolation is something I suggest you take care of before you do any serious listening. One thing is the pillow but another one is damping the SC-Pure clocks. You will find my comments about it in one of my earlier posts. Others wrote about it too. Just try it and share your experience.
5. How did you arrange the grounding of StationPi and RaspberryPi?
Good luck!
1. First thing do not use the single-ended outputs as they are not meant for high-quality audio, which is clearly stated in the manual.
2. Did you configure the Dac board according to the instructions in the manual in the section "How to produce the best sound quality from your ES9038Q2M Dual Mono II DAC"?
3. The power supply wires from UcConditioner power supplies to the OPA board are quite long which may reduce the benefit of using UcCondi. They also run very close to the RaspberryPi which is the source of a lot of noise, and these cables probably act as good antennas. Try to reposition the power supplies for OPA much closer to the OPA board, far away from RaspberryPi, and make these cables shorter.
4. Vibration isolation is something I suggest you take care of before you do any serious listening. One thing is the pillow but another one is damping the SC-Pure clocks. You will find my comments about it in one of my earlier posts. Others wrote about it too. Just try it and share your experience.
5. How did you arrange the grounding of StationPi and RaspberryPi?
Good luck!
Unfortunately my Primaluna preamp does not have xlr so single ended is all I got. The grounding to earth is done on the station Pi as per the manual. At this point that is the only earth ground connected as I did not include any shield yet. Thank you all for the inputs. Will keep testing.