In all situations offering a attitude of 'Fairplay' is the best base to work from.
To share with others information they may not have considered is exactly what is the minimum on offer and I hope is considered 'Fairplay'.
Especially when this type of information discussed within this thread is discovered in the future during searches where others are looking for answers.
Updates on information will continue as the best practices are being discovered.
I personally am very pleased that the New Bush Parts are being offered to be made available to the interested parties.
To be involved in the discussion and not be able to offer the option on a part,
especially when interest was growing and requests to acquire a part were being made, is now improved on with the option to offer the part is now available.
It is quite clear from knowing the cost of the Raw Material and the allocation of time being used for a small batch of a hand produced production, the asking price is very reasonable.
To share with others information they may not have considered is exactly what is the minimum on offer and I hope is considered 'Fairplay'.
Especially when this type of information discussed within this thread is discovered in the future during searches where others are looking for answers.
Updates on information will continue as the best practices are being discovered.
I personally am very pleased that the New Bush Parts are being offered to be made available to the interested parties.
To be involved in the discussion and not be able to offer the option on a part,
especially when interest was growing and requests to acquire a part were being made, is now improved on with the option to offer the part is now available.
It is quite clear from knowing the cost of the Raw Material and the allocation of time being used for a small batch of a hand produced production, the asking price is very reasonable.
On Monday 02-08-2021 I will be making the request to commence with the GB.
With the Quantities as shown below, I am picking up 50% of the production fee to help get this going.
At present from my understanding the List is as follows.
Audio Musica - 2 Sets
Dubai 2000 - 1 Set
Jamie 123 - 1 Set
Jogi - 1 Set
JohnnoG - 2 Sets
As said I will pick up the outstanding to produce the 10 Sets.
If any thread contributor does not want to continue with the Purchase can I be informed prior to Monday 02-08-21.
With the Quantities as shown below, I am picking up 50% of the production fee to help get this going.
At present from my understanding the List is as follows.
Audio Musica - 2 Sets
Dubai 2000 - 1 Set
Jamie 123 - 1 Set
Jogi - 1 Set
JohnnoG - 2 Sets
As said I will pick up the outstanding to produce the 10 Sets.
If any thread contributor does not want to continue with the Purchase can I be informed prior to Monday 02-08-21.
The Links and Copy and Paste entries are the information that is to me the most relevant at the moment.
It covers Information from the Industry on Thermoplastics used within a Bearing Assembly.
To find an information for a Specific Material from the Thermoplastic Family is a little difficult, but the references to Plastics is easier to come by.
The Igus investigation is of interest, as there own Information on Trials undertaken uses a Silicone Based Lubrication as one of the Trials and it seems to be effective.
This is in keeping with with other reports on the compatibility with these types of lubricants on Plastic, where there is a recommendation for the Suitability.
Additionally Silicone Lubricants are repellent of moisture and are looking likely that this property is attractive as Thermoplastics are known to absorb Moisture.
Torlon is recognised for being stable during exposure to moisture and Vesponite is notably stable hence it is a choice in rhe Marine Industry.
There are equations that can be undertaken to select a Viscosity.
To achieve the recommended Viscosity for a environment to be lubricated.
The Heat Generated within a Bearing Housing has to be known.
A Lubrication Supply Service could crunch the Numbers for the Bearing Housing Temp, Bearing Diameter and Rotations and supply a suggestion for a Oil Type that would have the Viscosity to be able to maintain a Hydrodynamic Lubrication for the Bush/Spindle Interface.
Hence, as I stated previously, a friend who takes on this sort of investigation quite intensely.
When working toward improving a TT Bearing, is working with a Laser Thermometer and Stephoscope monitoring the situation, checking Bearing and Motor Temp's, analysing the emitted noise and then making decisions on which Lubrication to be used.
If the Math was producing a perfect Oil Viscosity, the Interference Fit Ball/Thrust Pad Interface may have a Oil Separation as well ?
The right lubrication for plastic plain bearings – igus Blog
Detailed Information on Types of Bearing Lubrication
_____________________________________________________________
If your turntable uses sintered bronze bushes it is important to use the correct type of lubricant.
Sintered bronze bushes are porous and can be made to absorb oil. This gives them a certain degree of self lubricating ability.
Older automotive gear oils are most definitely a very bad choice as they contain sulphur based EP additives (extreme pressure) which are corrosive to yellow metals. Most modern gear oils contain buffered or deactivated sulphur which is less far less corrosive to yellow metals. However these are still damaging to yellow metals when you have a hard metal like steel in contact with a soft metal like bronze. This is exactly what we have in a turntable such as a Thorens TD124 or TD125.
You might get away with a modern gear oil I wouldn't risk it.
Engines oils are a slightly better option but they do still contain additives which are totally irrelevant in a turntable bearing and may even cause some problems.
I would not use any oils containing PTFE (teflon) or molybdenum disulphide.
The best easily available type of oil to use is an oil designed for air compressors. These oils do not contain additives which will be damaging to bronze bearing, they come in suitable viscosities and they are relatively easily obtainable.
The main advantage of synthetic base stock oils is their ability to withstand higher temperatures without breaking down and there better cold flow properties at the other end of the temperature range. This is of no benefit in your turntable bearing. Having said that the cost difference is pretty negligible in the quantities we are talking about so if you want to buy synthetic then go ahead. It certainly won't do any harm and it may provide some slight advantages.
Compressor oils tend to come is ISO viscosity ratings. Here is a rough guide.
ISO 32 = SAE 10
ISO 46 = SAE 20
ISO 68 = SAE 20w
ISO 100 = SAE 30
If your turntable has tighter bearing clearances a lower viscosity may be better and conversely if your turntable bearing is old and has widened clearances and higher viscosity may be better.
Nov 24, 2013
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I was once told by a reliable (aerospace enginer) friend that Silicone (please note spelling SQ: Silicon is a metallic element) fluids do not have particularly good shear strength, even if high/thick viscocity and, hence, would not be suitable for highly loaded metal-to-metal bearing surfaces, such as gear cogs, ball thrust bearing etc.
Silicone fluid is suitable for metal-to-plastic bearings and pads, such as Well Tempered platter bearing etc.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Good Luck this weekend Jamie, with your investigations to produce a Part that will be able to function as a Side Wall and retain Lubrication, proving to be a suitable replacement for the Square Walled Washer.
Did you look at the X Ring Link I posted ?
It covers Information from the Industry on Thermoplastics used within a Bearing Assembly.
To find an information for a Specific Material from the Thermoplastic Family is a little difficult, but the references to Plastics is easier to come by.
The Igus investigation is of interest, as there own Information on Trials undertaken uses a Silicone Based Lubrication as one of the Trials and it seems to be effective.
This is in keeping with with other reports on the compatibility with these types of lubricants on Plastic, where there is a recommendation for the Suitability.
Additionally Silicone Lubricants are repellent of moisture and are looking likely that this property is attractive as Thermoplastics are known to absorb Moisture.
Torlon is recognised for being stable during exposure to moisture and Vesponite is notably stable hence it is a choice in rhe Marine Industry.
There are equations that can be undertaken to select a Viscosity.
To achieve the recommended Viscosity for a environment to be lubricated.
The Heat Generated within a Bearing Housing has to be known.
A Lubrication Supply Service could crunch the Numbers for the Bearing Housing Temp, Bearing Diameter and Rotations and supply a suggestion for a Oil Type that would have the Viscosity to be able to maintain a Hydrodynamic Lubrication for the Bush/Spindle Interface.
Hence, as I stated previously, a friend who takes on this sort of investigation quite intensely.
When working toward improving a TT Bearing, is working with a Laser Thermometer and Stephoscope monitoring the situation, checking Bearing and Motor Temp's, analysing the emitted noise and then making decisions on which Lubrication to be used.
If the Math was producing a perfect Oil Viscosity, the Interference Fit Ball/Thrust Pad Interface may have a Oil Separation as well ?
The right lubrication for plastic plain bearings – igus Blog
Detailed Information on Types of Bearing Lubrication
_____________________________________________________________
If your turntable uses sintered bronze bushes it is important to use the correct type of lubricant.
Sintered bronze bushes are porous and can be made to absorb oil. This gives them a certain degree of self lubricating ability.
Older automotive gear oils are most definitely a very bad choice as they contain sulphur based EP additives (extreme pressure) which are corrosive to yellow metals. Most modern gear oils contain buffered or deactivated sulphur which is less far less corrosive to yellow metals. However these are still damaging to yellow metals when you have a hard metal like steel in contact with a soft metal like bronze. This is exactly what we have in a turntable such as a Thorens TD124 or TD125.
You might get away with a modern gear oil I wouldn't risk it.
Engines oils are a slightly better option but they do still contain additives which are totally irrelevant in a turntable bearing and may even cause some problems.
I would not use any oils containing PTFE (teflon) or molybdenum disulphide.
The best easily available type of oil to use is an oil designed for air compressors. These oils do not contain additives which will be damaging to bronze bearing, they come in suitable viscosities and they are relatively easily obtainable.
The main advantage of synthetic base stock oils is their ability to withstand higher temperatures without breaking down and there better cold flow properties at the other end of the temperature range. This is of no benefit in your turntable bearing. Having said that the cost difference is pretty negligible in the quantities we are talking about so if you want to buy synthetic then go ahead. It certainly won't do any harm and it may provide some slight advantages.
Compressor oils tend to come is ISO viscosity ratings. Here is a rough guide.
ISO 32 = SAE 10
ISO 46 = SAE 20
ISO 68 = SAE 20w
ISO 100 = SAE 30
If your turntable has tighter bearing clearances a lower viscosity may be better and conversely if your turntable bearing is old and has widened clearances and higher viscosity may be better.
Nov 24, 2013
____________________________________________________________________________________________________
I was once told by a reliable (aerospace enginer) friend that Silicone (please note spelling SQ: Silicon is a metallic element) fluids do not have particularly good shear strength, even if high/thick viscocity and, hence, would not be suitable for highly loaded metal-to-metal bearing surfaces, such as gear cogs, ball thrust bearing etc.
Silicone fluid is suitable for metal-to-plastic bearings and pads, such as Well Tempered platter bearing etc.
_______________________________________________________________________________________________________
Good Luck this weekend Jamie, with your investigations to produce a Part that will be able to function as a Side Wall and retain Lubrication, proving to be a suitable replacement for the Square Walled Washer.
Did you look at the X Ring Link I posted ?
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The Links to the X Ring Parts I sought out as a sample are listed below.
The Correct materials will need to be selected, these are simply to show a Part that can be used in place of an O Ring.
Search - ERIKS Seal Shop
Search - ERIKS Seal Shop
The Correct materials will need to be selected, these are simply to show a Part that can be used in place of an O Ring.
Search - ERIKS Seal Shop
Search - ERIKS Seal Shop
progress of sorts, various o rings have been ordered to try out a new oil retainer and yesterday i made a brass ring to strengthen the pressed steel bowl. if it does anything remains to be seen but it certainly deadens the ring of the bowl when tapped.i might spray it black as it looks a bit too blingy for my tastes 
Yeh, it's worked fine, I used much thicker silicone when I had one of Meldano's ac controllers and a rega 24v motor on the deck, now I use a mober dc motor and controller and the thicker oil confused the logic controller so it was always hunting, so I tried thinner mixes until I found one that worked, then I dropped it a little bit more to be safe.
The bearing looks fine, no added wear, no rocking of precession, no excess noise, its all good.
Wouldn't use it in a metal-metal bearing though...
The bearing looks fine, no added wear, no rocking of precession, no excess noise, its all good.
Wouldn't use it in a metal-metal bearing though...
There has been enough of Break in Time to confirm the intent to join the GB for the Torlon Sleeves.
With the cooling off period that I allowed for now being over, and the lack of responses to my request to confirm the interest, this leaves myself to believe I will pick up the bulk of the cost for the parts.
I am not intending on incurring the costs for 9 Sets of Parts.
I will tonight send the Engineer an email, and cancel the agreed arrangement to have the 10 Sets of parts produced and made available for September.
With the cooling off period that I allowed for now being over, and the lack of responses to my request to confirm the interest, this leaves myself to believe I will pick up the bulk of the cost for the parts.
I am not intending on incurring the costs for 9 Sets of Parts.
I will tonight send the Engineer an email, and cancel the agreed arrangement to have the 10 Sets of parts produced and made available for September.
Sorry, I don't quite understand - why do you want to cancel this GB? I am certainly still interested and I suppose the other people you've ementioned above as well.....Just speaking for myself: I did not understand that an additional confirmation is needed - if so, I am sure that the other members will chime in as well....
Again let me repeat: I have expressed interest (am still interested!) so what more needs to be done? I understand posting 162 that it is only necessary to resond if one does NOT want to purchase......And if John writes that nobody resoonded I'd assume there is simply some kind of misunderstanding - and no lack of commitment. So may I suggest that instead of canceling, please wait and see how the other people mentioned in 162 respond....which I hope they will do!
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You didn’t ask people to confirm interest:
“If any thread contributor does not want to continue with the Purchase can I be informed prior to Monday 02-08-21.”