Hello John,
The 'Newplast' ® I recommend is to add damping to materials which otherwise would be lacking in that department. Panzerholz doesn't need extra damping, as it ihas a higher damping factor than 'Newplast'.
It must be stressed that it is far easier to choose materials with high intrisic damping, that it is to add damping to materials that have little.
FYI: 'Newplast' is similar to Plasticine®, but is much better at damping [DF of Newplast® twice that of Plasticine ®] This may be down to the filler used (Limestone for Plasticine®, china clay for Newplast®) and/or their particle sizes. Bentonite, when used with polyester resin has a better DF if granular compared with powder.
The 'Newplast' ® I recommend is to add damping to materials which otherwise would be lacking in that department. Panzerholz doesn't need extra damping, as it ihas a higher damping factor than 'Newplast'.
It must be stressed that it is far easier to choose materials with high intrisic damping, that it is to add damping to materials that have little.
FYI: 'Newplast' is similar to Plasticine®, but is much better at damping [DF of Newplast® twice that of Plasticine ®] This may be down to the filler used (Limestone for Plasticine®, china clay for Newplast®) and/or their particle sizes. Bentonite, when used with polyester resin has a better DF if granular compared with powder.
Hi Bryan
I was just pointing out at what a bunch of experimentalists we can become at times. It was not a query raised about the methods chosen for the application.
It was more how how an individual assessed the differing versions that had been produced, and could detect a difference of which one was more preferable.
I was just pointing out at what a bunch of experimentalists we can become at times. It was not a query raised about the methods chosen for the application.
It was more how how an individual assessed the differing versions that had been produced, and could detect a difference of which one was more preferable.
understand John 
. In fact it is the dilemma most of us face. As many audiophiles will suggest to 'use your ears', is there any wonder the disparity in opinion. Probably hundreds of thousands of hifi systems, world wide, and possibly not two the same! No wonder the differences of opinion.
Over the years I have come to accept that different audiophiles and music lovers want different things from their hifi. And what suits you or me isn't likely to be universally accepted.
So we get people saying things like 'damping kills the music', when in reality, damping has removed the colouration that so many seem to need!
. In fact it is the dilemma most of us face. As many audiophiles will suggest to 'use your ears', is there any wonder the disparity in opinion. Probably hundreds of thousands of hifi systems, world wide, and possibly not two the same! No wonder the differences of opinion.Over the years I have come to accept that different audiophiles and music lovers want different things from their hifi. And what suits you or me isn't likely to be universally accepted.
So we get people saying things like 'damping kills the music', when in reality, damping has removed the colouration that so many seem to need!
There will never be a universal anything in hifi, as we all have our prejudices and (mis)conceptions.
Panzerholz, Permali and maybe polyester resin/bentonite granules would be the materials of choice, having very high intrinsic damping, stiffness and (relatively) low density.
But there will always be people who want more 'excitement' from their kit, for whatever reason/s. So, although there are excellent reasons for choosing certain materials, there are going to be some people who prefer other materials for less scientific reasons, like aesthetics or costs or ease of working.
So, what's the best car?
Panzerholz, Permali and maybe polyester resin/bentonite granules would be the materials of choice, having very high intrinsic damping, stiffness and (relatively) low density.
But there will always be people who want more 'excitement' from their kit, for whatever reason/s. So, although there are excellent reasons for choosing certain materials, there are going to be some people who prefer other materials for less scientific reasons, like aesthetics or costs or ease of working.
So, what's the best car?
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There is lots of knowledge to be learned here, think I will first go for the motor (without chassis) onto new birch plywood sandwiched plinth along with a 12-inch arm. Classic looking style like the Linn Sondek/ Thoren looks. Then tweak from there slowly.
Control electronics will be on a separate chassis to be hidden away.
Control electronics will be on a separate chassis to be hidden away.
Does anyone know how to glue sheets of Permali, Panzerholz, et al? Is it just PVA wood glue or is it hard to glue?
There is commentary that it is hard to machine.
I once clad a speaker with resinated strand woven bamboo and it was the hardest wood product I have ever encountered. I went through a ton of TCT saw blades and router bits. Never again.
A Slight change in Direction has occurred with the investigations into Platter Materials.
As stated before an engineer friend has my Phosphor Bronze Platter so see how it can be worked with the fit a SP10 MkII Kaneta design.
Another friend has got on board who owns a SP10 MkII and is keen to produce a Thermoplastic Platter to couple to the OEM Platter.
I have now sourced a supplier who will offer a Stainless Steel Billet of 305mm Diameter x 30mm and also have a few Machinist contacts to discuss the Platter production with.
The New change is that I also acquired an additional OEM Platter with the Outer Rim milled flush to the platters top surface.
This said to allow a Vacuum Platter Mat to be used and is the recommendation of a method by Dr Kaneta.
I have been informed a Vacuum Platter Mat is available to be loaned to the investigation by a friend.
Additional to this, the Platter can be Stacked Lenco Style to see what can be achieved.
The Lenco Stacked Assembly have also been seen with a variety of damping materials used on the Top Platter in the assembly.
A few thoughts shared on this would be of interest.
As stated before an engineer friend has my Phosphor Bronze Platter so see how it can be worked with the fit a SP10 MkII Kaneta design.
Another friend has got on board who owns a SP10 MkII and is keen to produce a Thermoplastic Platter to couple to the OEM Platter.
I have now sourced a supplier who will offer a Stainless Steel Billet of 305mm Diameter x 30mm and also have a few Machinist contacts to discuss the Platter production with.
The New change is that I also acquired an additional OEM Platter with the Outer Rim milled flush to the platters top surface.
This said to allow a Vacuum Platter Mat to be used and is the recommendation of a method by Dr Kaneta.
I have been informed a Vacuum Platter Mat is available to be loaned to the investigation by a friend.
Additional to this, the Platter can be Stacked Lenco Style to see what can be achieved.
The Lenco Stacked Assembly have also been seen with a variety of damping materials used on the Top Platter in the assembly.
A few thoughts shared on this would be of interest.
The damping on the rear of the OEM platter is poorly bonded. When I removed the damping it was not glued over the whole surface, and time had its effect on the glue as the damping came away easily.
I bonded 20mm of POMC to the OEM platter with a de-coupled spindle. There was huge improvement over the OEM platter/mat. But the POM only platter is better although this could be due to the additional thickness of the POM 20mm (OEM) to 40mm (POM only)
SP10 platter bonded Acetal - YouTube
Acoustic Z of POM is very close to vinyl, so coupling the LP to the POM platter will result in a very high level of energy transfer into the POM.
I bonded 20mm of POMC to the OEM platter with a de-coupled spindle. There was huge improvement over the OEM platter/mat. But the POM only platter is better although this could be due to the additional thickness of the POM 20mm (OEM) to 40mm (POM only)
SP10 platter bonded Acetal - YouTube
Acoustic Z of POM is very close to vinyl, so coupling the LP to the POM platter will result in a very high level of energy transfer into the POM.
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I will inform my friend who is investigating the Thermoplastic Platter Method of the reported differences between the Laminated Thermolastic/OEM and the Bespoke Machined Thermoplastic Platter.
His capabilities will allow either to be produced when the time to participate in the project is available.
When the Term 'Bonded the 20mm of POMC to the OEM platter' is referred to
is the adhesive a hard setting adhesive or a Silicone Type that fastens the parts but is reasonably easy to separate and clean of residuals.
My thoughts on a adhesive for these types of uses is the Dry Wall Sound Proofing Adhesive that can absorb transferred energy has a softness maintained when fully cured.
His capabilities will allow either to be produced when the time to participate in the project is available.
When the Term 'Bonded the 20mm of POMC to the OEM platter' is referred to
is the adhesive a hard setting adhesive or a Silicone Type that fastens the parts but is reasonably easy to separate and clean of residuals.
My thoughts on a adhesive for these types of uses is the Dry Wall Sound Proofing Adhesive that can absorb transferred energy has a softness maintained when fully cured.
Hi Warren
Thank you for this the spare platter will be quite useful then, as it can be the sacrificial platter to be modified to take on the different roles.
As an alternative approach for an individual that did not want to change the OEM Platters Original Finish.
How does the idea of using a Metal Platter Mat of appox' 5mm Thickness,
that can also be modified to be used as the base of the assembly and clamp the the Acetal, to stop it warping.
This would then only leave the method to couple the Metal Mat and OEM Platter.
The OEM Platters Finger Lift Holes could be utilised to fasten the assembly together.
Thank you for this the spare platter will be quite useful then, as it can be the sacrificial platter to be modified to take on the different roles.
As an alternative approach for an individual that did not want to change the OEM Platters Original Finish.
How does the idea of using a Metal Platter Mat of appox' 5mm Thickness,
that can also be modified to be used as the base of the assembly and clamp the the Acetal, to stop it warping.
This would then only leave the method to couple the Metal Mat and OEM Platter.
The OEM Platters Finger Lift Holes could be utilised to fasten the assembly together.
I have an SP-10 Mk II that I restored a couple years ago. At that time I replaced all the electrolytics and adjusted PLL according to the service manual. This table was saved from a radio station (along with one that went to 6L6) and did not have a power supply. I built a PSU according to the schematic from MPBarney (schematic attached). It delays the timing of the 32 V based on larger capacitor in the regulated section. I also replaced the strobe with LEDs as per MPBarney.
The table worked perfectly for many months. The speed stabilized and the strobe stabilized almost immediately. The table sat unused for several months as I waited for a repair to my cart. When I re-installed the cart and started using the table a couple weeks ago, I am now getting a slight delay in speed stabilization. The strobe jumps for 1 - 2 seconds and then stabilizes.
Before I take the motor unit apart, I thought I'd seek advice. Does this behavior indicate a problem? What is the likely source of the problem?
I replaced the caps with a mixture of Nichicon MUSE, Elna SILMIC II and Panasonic FR and FC. I realize now that the recommendation is to use Panasonic FC in all positions. I can easily go back and change the caps if it's recommended.
Thanks for your assistance.
p.s. I completely agree with the assessment of this turntable. It's performance is superb and I have not yet upgraded the platter or added something like a Tenuto platter mat. Cheers.
The table worked perfectly for many months. The speed stabilized and the strobe stabilized almost immediately. The table sat unused for several months as I waited for a repair to my cart. When I re-installed the cart and started using the table a couple weeks ago, I am now getting a slight delay in speed stabilization. The strobe jumps for 1 - 2 seconds and then stabilizes.
Before I take the motor unit apart, I thought I'd seek advice. Does this behavior indicate a problem? What is the likely source of the problem?
I replaced the caps with a mixture of Nichicon MUSE, Elna SILMIC II and Panasonic FR and FC. I realize now that the recommendation is to use Panasonic FC in all positions. I can easily go back and change the caps if it's recommended.
Thanks for your assistance.
p.s. I completely agree with the assessment of this turntable. It's performance is superb and I have not yet upgraded the platter or added something like a Tenuto platter mat. Cheers.
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