Ah yes, you asked about at the end of covid lockdown. Nice to see you made them!
Happy with the results? How musicians react to them?
Happy with the results? How musicians react to them?
@krivium Had a few people trying to find the logo on them to work out what company made them. Pretty much universal aclaim for the sound. We made 4 and are now making a second batch with some cosmetic improvments. The dispersion pattern of the 12FCX76 is ideal for this monitor application, also the large compresion driver means massive HF output potential and the overall design of the driver makes the crossover easy. They have optimised flared ports which alow the response to be flattened to 60Hz with a big amp. They also work well as small scale PA tops with subs.
Yep they are as small as can physically fit the driver in the box so easy to move around the stage. I haven't measured the off axis response as building a turntable is on my to-do list but I don't notice any off axis anomalies and they have behaved well at gig WRT feedback.
The issue is not so much mounting a (dome) tweeter that simply fits within the VC, but, as KEF has shown, the design of an optimized mini-waveguide to properly match the tweeter-cone transition. It is beyond my understanding how manufacturers of name and fame simply throw in a fitting tweeter and thats it. The result is an Alpine landscape from 6-12 Khz.
The question is can the manufacturer do it? Or they not care to spend the R&D on it?
Maybe the market simply thinks it’s 2nd best?
The coaxial IS a wave guided tweeter and mid/woofer in one!
Really seems ripe for refinement now that we know how important waveguides are for getting directivity matching !!!
Maybe the market simply thinks it’s 2nd best?
The coaxial IS a wave guided tweeter and mid/woofer in one!
Really seems ripe for refinement now that we know how important waveguides are for getting directivity matching !!!
@tktran: of course the cone acts as a waveguide. But that is only part of the story. As the waveguide-tweeter plus horn/waveguide-CD sims demonstrate, the first, say 5 mm, of the interface are crucially important for a smooth HF response. Not only KEF, but recently Malcolm Jones has also shown the way to go.
KEF, Genelec and TAD have shown the way.
But why can’t Peerless/Tymphany, Scan-Speak, SEAS, Accuton, Audio Technology etc make one? Maybe no one wants to buy a state of the art coaxial?
Perhaps like horns, it got a bad reputation?
Someone had to rename a shallow horn a waveguide. or Diffraction eXpansion Technology.
What about newcomers Bliesma and Purifi? Maybe they are working on one…
WaveRing (tm). I like it…
But why can’t Peerless/Tymphany, Scan-Speak, SEAS, Accuton, Audio Technology etc make one? Maybe no one wants to buy a state of the art coaxial?
Perhaps like horns, it got a bad reputation?
Someone had to rename a shallow horn a waveguide. or Diffraction eXpansion Technology.
What about newcomers Bliesma and Purifi? Maybe they are working on one…
WaveRing (tm). I like it…
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Guys,
Given the number of reference milestones albums recorded/mixed/mastered on Tannoys or Altecs in the last 50 years...
This sound like a joke to me to think Kef, Genelec or Tad showed the way.
A very short list maybe? 70's: Dark side of the Moon: Tannoy, 80's Anything produced in Tuff Gong Jamaica: Urei ( Altec), 90's: anything mastered at The Exchange London ( including, Bjork, Massive Attack,Oasis, Prodigy,...) Tannoy...
00's: Plastikman 'consumed' and all tracks produced by him at that time: Tannoy...😉
Things produced in USA since 70's have probably been reproduced at one time or another on Altec during production ( most sold driver in control rooms at that time).
If there was real awful issues you won't listen to this albums...
Bring back to Caesar... 😉
Sure Kef or Genelec ( anybody noticed Cabasse do the same since 90's?) are great evolutions on the principle ( i bought some 😉 ).
Given the number of reference milestones albums recorded/mixed/mastered on Tannoys or Altecs in the last 50 years...
This sound like a joke to me to think Kef, Genelec or Tad showed the way.
A very short list maybe? 70's: Dark side of the Moon: Tannoy, 80's Anything produced in Tuff Gong Jamaica: Urei ( Altec), 90's: anything mastered at The Exchange London ( including, Bjork, Massive Attack,Oasis, Prodigy,...) Tannoy...
00's: Plastikman 'consumed' and all tracks produced by him at that time: Tannoy...😉
Things produced in USA since 70's have probably been reproduced at one time or another on Altec during production ( most sold driver in control rooms at that time).
If there was real awful issues you won't listen to this albums...
Bring back to Caesar... 😉
Sure Kef or Genelec ( anybody noticed Cabasse do the same since 90's?) are great evolutions on the principle ( i bought some 😉 ).
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Where can we buy a Tannoy or Altec coaxial, off the shelf, for DIY use?
and as Boden was saying, I for one, don’t want a raggedy alpine frequency response for hi-fi use. As Charlie was saying, “relatively crappy responses produced by many of the "tweeter" sections in coaxial drivers”. I never Liked the shrill sound or special fx of the Tannoy DCs…
and as Boden was saying, I for one, don’t want a raggedy alpine frequency response for hi-fi use. As Charlie was saying, “relatively crappy responses produced by many of the "tweeter" sections in coaxial drivers”. I never Liked the shrill sound or special fx of the Tannoy DCs…
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Altec yes under another name ( check my previous answer to Angry Fat Cat in this thread).
Tannoy sadly not anymore new, but second hand. 😉 Fyre new ( engineer comes from Tannoy).
Is this alpine looking issue something you really hear? By this i mean listen to DSOTM and point to the issues please, recorded, mixed and 'mastered' on Golds. 😉
Tannoy sadly not anymore new, but second hand. 😉 Fyre new ( engineer comes from Tannoy).
Is this alpine looking issue something you really hear? By this i mean listen to DSOTM and point to the issues please, recorded, mixed and 'mastered' on Golds. 😉
"Words cannot describe the pleasure of listening back to the final mix of 'Hey Jude' on four giant Tannoy speakers which dwarfed everything else in the room ...
Paul McCartney
Tannoy Gold as monitors: The Beatles (above plus some songs on the White Album), Queen, Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Elton John, Black Sabbath, Jeff Beck, Frank Zappa, Lou Reed, The Rolling Stones, etc, etc.
Yeah, I think Tannoy and Urei showed the way.
Paul McCartney
Tannoy Gold as monitors: The Beatles (above plus some songs on the White Album), Queen, Genesis, Peter Gabriel, Kate Bush, Elton John, Black Sabbath, Jeff Beck, Frank Zappa, Lou Reed, The Rolling Stones, etc, etc.
Yeah, I think Tannoy and Urei showed the way.
May i ask how you seted up the Tannoy dc?
I mostly hated them when i first encountered them as nearfields monitors with small drivers ( 6,5" and 8"). They were in typical setup: tweeter pointing at hears in a 60° triangle.
Then i was lucky to have access to a control room with System15"dmt2 in wall.
From there i started to wonder as they were not pointing to main listening point, but with ~15° offset angle. Discussed with the resident engineer about 'the issue' i was seeing. He laughed and showed me some measurements which had been made when they build the room.
The bad rep comes from the issue they have when trying to point on axis to hears, they are not meant to be listened that way, but as the acoustician seted them up.
What do you call special fx? Mine ( System800) had an issue passive. Once used with a clone of the active circuit it was solved to my preference.
It comes from the offset between acoustic emissing point in Z axys ( depth). Woofer needs to be delayed relative to tweeter or to use allpass filters to compensate for this offset.
Once done they are ok to me.
Don't misread my point, those ( coax) are not the 'ultimate loudspeakers' bringing smile to anyone. They works for me, ymmv.
My point is just don't trust your eyes, rather your hears and set this 'classic' design as they should ( toe out) with enough space between them and they'll sound as supposed to be.
If you can use a dsp and measurements it'll help but final judge are your hears.
And if you don't like passive filtering nothing stop you to change it to uour liking: ZenMod and friends does just that in the Passlab forum ( as Nelson do to iirc).
Here’s an example of a well executed implementation of a coax:
Attachments
I use both the 10&12” - 12” to be preferred . Baffle of 10” prototype below is natural extension of profile of cone as in illustration above.
Measurements with B&K mike using Klippel in anechoic chamber imported into VCad.
Definitely don’t optimize or listen on axis!
I do however think that coax is best linearized (using FIR) and crossed <90Hz .
Cone is time delayed of course and handover is with 60dB L/R filters. Distortion of coax rises really fast below 1,1K and cone has pretty bad breakups close to passband. We use FourAudio PPA for filters and amps.
Measurements with B&K mike using Klippel in anechoic chamber imported into VCad.
Definitely don’t optimize or listen on axis!
I do however think that coax is best linearized (using FIR) and crossed <90Hz .
Cone is time delayed of course and handover is with 60dB L/R filters. Distortion of coax rises really fast below 1,1K and cone has pretty bad breakups close to passband. We use FourAudio PPA for filters and amps.
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