Huh ? "transparent" - ...means its not there ? Snake oil terms. Nothing wrong with PPM. Make the amp match the Topping DAC @ 1PPM.
Then you can just hear your imperfect speakers (again).
Difference in amp "sound" can only be either highly distorted designs or subtle damping factor interactions.
Big "godlike amp" with hundreds damping and 100KuF power supplies (wolverine class) WILL sound different than the OEM "cheapo".
OS
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Hey, I have built few Class A/AB amp clones. Aleph 5, Hiraga le Monstre, jlh1969, Jlh2003, F5. F5 and jlh2003 have just assembled and tested objectively. Have not listened to it in my primary room/speakers yet. My current fav is Aleph 5. To me it sounds more refined in the highs. To me Hiraga has little more sparkle in the highs but sounds bit forward in some recordings. I will have more input once I get to listen to f5 as a daily driver.
Here's Aleph 5 playing ->
Here's Aleph 5 playing ->
With no intention of derailing the extremely interesting thread, different interconnect or speaker cables will produce very different Sonic results, but presumably have virtually no effect on the PPM so long as they don't have excessive resistance?
Just like reductionist thinking will mislead one in understanding his own body (a machine too complex to yield to such an attempt), perhaps same applies in other complex enough systems like audio or electrical circuits (curse of dimensionality anyone?). Perhaps there's too many variables and some are hidden/not_obvious, I really don't know. Or measurable distortion really is the whole story. Any one of you ITT probably know better than me the answer to that as I'm total newbs in the audio diy hobby and listening experience is much less too... but the latter I do have a little bit of and sometimes even general life experience allows fair judgment across multiple domains. Above all though, I'm just curious, please take this the right way, I'm definitely the one to assume the role of the disciple in the context and scope of this thread's discussion.
Although I haven't replied to everyone who has commented so far, I am thinking deeply about all of your responses and I appreciate them very much.
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I will say though, the sheer simplicity of F5m speaks to me and I will it seems build it absolutely regardless of what my final thoughts are, especially since more than one person has actually regarded it as the top choice for them in terms of favorable high frequency performance. If not for anything else, gain audio experience and some experience in actually building an amp from the ground up!
Much love, truly very interesting thread and almost everything that has been said has changed my perspective and taught me new things I didn't know about. Many options, many personal favorites, many dimensions even beyond just the choice of the circuitry, I guess I will just have to move a step at a time. Still, you guys are Godsent.
Much love, truly very interesting thread and almost everything that has been said has changed my perspective and taught me new things I didn't know about. Many options, many personal favorites, many dimensions even beyond just the choice of the circuitry, I guess I will just have to move a step at a time. Still, you guys are Godsent.
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I don't mess with bridging anything in the First Watt world. I look at FW style stuff as alternatives to low power tube amps, and meant to be paired with appropriate speakers to that end. Four Class A channels is just too much heat in my room. And balanced / bridged configurations typically squash that beautiful 2nd order distortion (euphony) that many people like. If I needed a ton of Watts and super low PPM, I would just build something from the "other" forum... where they build those scary animal amplifiers... badgers, wolverines, pythons, komodo dragons, or whatever else they have these days.. (disclaimer - this is all my own opinion, everyone is free to do as they please, obviously)
Actually, I can't. Both of the CJ preamps are SE. I did look into getting an ARC preamp but they only swing 10Vrms.
I'm running the bridged F4s with a BA3 front end and an Iron Pre Bal. All with balanced cables.
OTOH, the CJ preamps drive the SE F4s wonderfully. You can hear the goodness of the preamp.
Sissies.... You forgot the Sissy amp. I'm hoping for ZM's quad SIT Biggvs Dickvs Amp. 100 wpc.
First Watt for Magnepans.... otherwise known as the First Ten Watts.
Besides, it was Nelson himself who defined how to run the F4 in bridged mode, the amps even come with a single balanced input just for that.
Yes, the bridged mode sounds different, but still damn good and it drives Maggies like you can not believe. The bass is better than the A2 ( which is a lot to say ).
In the case of the F4.... I wonder about the distortion given it's a current buffer with no amplification. Did anyone see distortion curves for the bridged F4?
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Have you heard the F5Tv3? I'm curious.
I had the XA252SIT for a few months. It was incredible... no noise. It never sounded loud, which I can figure out it was low distortion... whatever. I mean, I could see the woofer move and put out plenty of sound, but it just didn't sound "loud" just clear. It just sounded so good that I turned up the volume... unlike most amps, the distortion never seemed to come.
The Sissy won't do that - or maybe I've never tried?
In this respect the XA252SIT bettered the bridged F4s and even a single F4. Driven by the same preamp.. a CJ ET3SE.
Unfortunately it immolated its right channel twice and took the woofer from one of my AN speakers. I guess it's a perfect amp for high efficiency speakers, but my ANs at 90 db/w and the times I played Can Can ( smoke 1 ) and Led Zeppelin ( smoke 2 ) were too much for the amp.
I think that if you have high efficiency speakers, the XA252SIT ( what I called my Macho SIT ) could be your Desert Island Amp.
So, now the 252SIT is gonna be a plain 252 with MOSFETs. Oh well, I'll get more Power!
In the meantime, I ought to drag the F5 to drive the Metronomes. Replace the Zons of Zenductor for a while.
If you like the Aleph 5... then you got to get the Aleph 2. Much deeper bass, same sweetness.
What music is that?
BTW, I can hear (*) the treble "quality" through the office system, it sounds metallic and extended without being harsh at all... and the bass attack is quite good. Piano sounds excellent! The voice sounds closely miked, excellent!
Love the case for the F5. It has a "face". Huh? ;-D
How did you record this?
Speakers? My Aleph 5 ( nee Rawson monoblocks ) just didn't have the oomph for the Maggie 1.7, although they drove the 12 very well.
(*) Office PC setup is Nuforce DDA100 with Acoustic Energy AE1 and Canare biwires.
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Ha yes, I am always looking for some new flavors. May be, once I get few of my already pending projects out of the way 🙂
More like these in my playlist. Regularly updated🤟 ->
Haha yes, Thanks. It's a A5 btw. The big knob(mouth?) actually is to set brightness of the VU meters!
Using Rode M5 matched pair in ORTF at regular listening position of 8 feet. Actually, the sound has degraded by youtube's encoder. My RAW recording file clearly sounds better. Room treatment helps recording(and listening too🙂).
Also I have, since uploading this video, made some tweaks to my recording interface(opamp, caps mods) also few crossover refinements.
Hopefully I can get some new recording posted(I enjoy this part too) with the F5.
I did DIY for these too. 4-way using SB29NRX75-6 for lows, 8mw125 for lower-mids, RS52AN for mids and Fountek Neox for tweeters.
Its modular too, so I can try different drivers in future.
Cheers!
Then maybe Zenductor 2 would work?
A visual guide to the Rothacher/Pass Zenductor 2
The Zenductor 2 is a mono block, single-ended, zero-feedback, Class-A audio amplifier. You need two for stereo.
Nelson’s article can be found here - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/burning-amp-2024.414636/post-7820909
All photos in this guide will show one amplifier being built.
Parts for one amplifier.
Let's look a little closer at al the various bits -
The circuit board everything attaches to.
Zenductor 2 is powered by a 16v 4.5A brick-style Power Supply...
The Zenductor 2 is a mono block, single-ended, zero-feedback, Class-A audio amplifier. You need two for stereo.
Nelson’s article can be found here - https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/burning-amp-2024.414636/post-7820909
All photos in this guide will show one amplifier being built.
Parts for one amplifier.
Let's look a little closer at al the various bits -
The circuit board everything attaches to.
Zenductor 2 is powered by a 16v 4.5A brick-style Power Supply...
I don't really care not much. Is this project something that is equivalent to other ones mentioned so far in this thread for the clarity, detail "magic" in the HF?
So, in case anyone is interested, I decided to go with GainCore which is a version of Warbler (because of how wonderfully it lends itself to the testing of different FE designs, modularity and different output devices) and XA252 PoP (which will have to wait for a future time for due to limited funds). One is SE and the other is PP. Having those two, bringing them to full potential with whatever means necessary and exploring them fully I think I'll have a pretty good picture of what the various designs have to offer and what is possible.
Thank you again everybody for your contributions to my exploration by sharing your thoughts and perspectives. Thank you very much.
Thank you again everybody for your contributions to my exploration by sharing your thoughts and perspectives. Thank you very much.
I'm sorry, sir, I do not have enough experience with Nelson's designs to answer that question, haven't even experimented to the extent that is possible or at all for that matter with the GainCore. Producing chassis, waiting for chokes etc.
Furthermore, apparently my idea of transparent highs is not the same as other people's. Perhaps I should have said - the amplifier with the most lack of veil in the high frequencies, because some people confused what I said as transparent with the idea of low distortion. The two ideas are not interchangeable and the one I presented is slightly or a lot more mysterious or at least harder to precisely define, especially since we are talking about the subjective experience of listening (in my idea).
Furthermore, apparently my idea of transparent highs is not the same as other people's. Perhaps I should have said - the amplifier with the most lack of veil in the high frequencies, because some people confused what I said as transparent with the idea of low distortion. The two ideas are not interchangeable and the one I presented is slightly or a lot more mysterious or at least harder to precisely define, especially since we are talking about the subjective experience of listening (in my idea).
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But based on my research and understanding, it's going to be single ended. The reason being that it is impossible to get clear character if two different devices (P-channel N-channel) are amplifying (regardless if current or voltage). This does not provide clarity or insight into the high frequencies like a homogeneous output of one device can. Of course, this is not the only way and by far not the major way in which a veil (a confusion, a perversion even more than a veil in this case) can be added, but this is the extent to which I can comment. Again, I would emphasize - I've much less (in fact - none) experience with Nelson's designs compared to who has replied here. The topic was about Nelson's designs, my comments are deductions based on other audio experience.
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