Yesterday I watched a video with the designer of some 50.000-200.000€ Kaiser speakers. He talked about anything long known in loudspeaker design like he had invented it himself, just recently, with the help of highly expensive computer aid only used by automobile makers. Very convincing, as he did not tell real lies, but in the end total BS. 100% old know how nothing new. He pretended to recently have invented, even bulletproof "Panzerholz" (Tank wood), which was an aluminum substitute in WW2. Or like doing coils from crystal oriented silver wire. Anyway, they use the most expensive chassis available to anyone, modified by them by the maker, of course. No stock Elipticore driver good enough for them.
Remembered me of how much snake oil is dripping from allmost any high priced HIFI gear. Refreshing to have mostly down to earth people here.
Remembered me of how much snake oil is dripping from allmost any high priced HIFI gear. Refreshing to have mostly down to earth people here.
@andyjevans
That misson sure is a good speaker of it's time, maybe throw out electrolytics and Benic caps. Looking at the x-over is the best you can do to them.
I once bought a something similar pair for a professionel singer, she wanted to practice at home and had not that much money to spend. Worked fine for her.
That misson sure is a good speaker of it's time, maybe throw out electrolytics and Benic caps. Looking at the x-over is the best you can do to them.
I once bought a something similar pair for a professionel singer, she wanted to practice at home and had not that much money to spend. Worked fine for her.
Not a good idea. The Misson speakers have been tuned for the volume. 20% more may be acceptable, but twice as much will make them loose character. Bass will be less, in a region you need and use.
If you plan such a transplant, first take one speaker out of the cabinet and measure the TSP. All it needs is your time, a free software and a simple resistor of maybe 20-50 Ohm. You have anything at home, right now. Then simulate and see what might be an improvement.
If they are not worth measuring, why transplant them?
If you plan such a transplant, first take one speaker out of the cabinet and measure the TSP. All it needs is your time, a free software and a simple resistor of maybe 20-50 Ohm. You have anything at home, right now. Then simulate and see what might be an improvement.
If they are not worth measuring, why transplant them?
Why going so large width for a 8" ?It would be better to put 30° recess around the front baffle. The soniicresult will be smoother than a squared aluminium imho. I would just choose the aluminium for the front plate and make the rest wood to have recess. Then 300 mm makes sense this time as width but after the extra of the recess. Illustration : 24 cm alu front baffle width with 3 cm recess 30° on each side of the front baffle. Total width 300 mm.
my 2 cents (wood coins of course
)
Or keep the mission and double them with aluminium and sikaflex in between if the first item of the list is to have an aluminium enclosure.
I think indeed it will be deadier because those Mission cabinet is made the cheap (and chip wood) way. And keep the monney to put good resistor voice coil and caps in the Mission you will tune by ear for the tonal you like.
Btw : fellows, what are the woofers Mission picked up in this loudspeaker ? Any marking on the chassis at their back or in some third party reviews ?
my 2 cents (wood coins of course
)Or keep the mission and double them with aluminium and sikaflex in between if the first item of the list is to have an aluminium enclosure.
I think indeed it will be deadier because those Mission cabinet is made the cheap (and chip wood) way. And keep the monney to put good resistor voice coil and caps in the Mission you will tune by ear for the tonal you like.
Btw : fellows, what are the woofers Mission picked up in this loudspeaker ? Any marking on the chassis at their back or in some third party reviews ?
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Needs to be 300mm wide for the 8" unit to fit. I measured it with a Kef B200 I have. Remember the ears sticking out in the aluminium channel pieces.
The units were and are good. Vifa C17WG that Troels liked a lot in C17WH form, paper cone and foam surround. And Vifa D19 that was a very widely used 19mm. For their era they were good choices.
There is one company that produces kit with flat pack cabinets. There was a DE company that did this for Visaton - as does this one
https://wilmslowaudio.co.uk/visaton-speaker-kits
They may do others if asked.
https://wilmslowaudio.co.uk/visaton-speaker-kits
They may do others if asked.
Nothing wrong with the Vifa C17 and D19 (although the textile D20 is waaaay better). The combo however pretty certainly leads to quite some sound power at 3-4kHz or an on-axis dip. A fellow DIY guy over here used to dismantle Missions and build better speakers with the drivers and an optimized crossover. The stock system measured, eh, not that good. So I think it can be done better.
Andy, your baffle size sure has potential. If you want to use the C17 drivers, consider getting the DXT tweeter or even better, the W148 waveguide with an appropriate tweeter. But you’ll have to find a means to measure the raw acoustic response of the drivers. If you stick to Visaton, you actually could sim the high section pretty well without measuring. But you are on your own with that C17.
Andy, your baffle size sure has potential. If you want to use the C17 drivers, consider getting the DXT tweeter or even better, the W148 waveguide with an appropriate tweeter. But you’ll have to find a means to measure the raw acoustic response of the drivers. If you stick to Visaton, you actually could sim the high section pretty well without measuring. But you are on your own with that C17.
Sorry but there are better choices than the DXT for a good sounding tweeter : cat378 (fabric- >2000 hz) , SB26CAC (>1800 hz) or STAC (>25000 hz), 22 TAF/G (>2000 hz but better > 2500 hz). And all are less expensive and can be horned but the TAF/G (cat378 is already : see OrangOutan and the link I provided for the sound above in a post).
if we have the datasheet of this Vifa, we can predict circa the cut-off and the Qtc according the volumme cabinet chosen hoppping it is = or < 0.707 .
Damping can increase artificially up to 20% the volume.
if we have the datasheet of this Vifa, we can predict circa the cut-off and the Qtc according the volumme cabinet chosen hoppping it is = or < 0.707 .
Damping can increase artificially up to 20% the volume.
<< if we have the datasheet of this Vifa, we can predict circa the cut-off and the Qtc according the volume cabinet chosen hoping it is = or < 0.707 .
I wish! I've looked for it.
<< there are better choices than the DXT for a good sounding tweeter : cat378, SB26CAC, or STAC or SEAS 22 TAF/G
The SEAS and SB ones are on my radar. But don't you mean the SB26CDC? Why not the SB26ADC instead of the SB26STAC?
I wish! I've looked for it.
<< there are better choices than the DXT for a good sounding tweeter : cat378, SB26CAC, or STAC or SEAS 22 TAF/G
The SEAS and SB ones are on my radar. But don't you mean the SB26CDC? Why not the SB26ADC instead of the SB26STAC?
You underestimate the waveguide on the DXT. And note that designing without a waveguide can lead to good directivity, but one has to work on both enclosure (baffle) shape and crossover setup to get that right. In the Devore clone, you see that didn't work out, the directivity (or what data is available...) lowers again above 1,5kHz. I suspect this design to have worse DI (ERDI or whatever you like) characteristics.
I do not know if it's the same version...
https://doc.soundimports.nl/pdf/brands/Peerless by Tymphany/D19TD-05/D19TD-05.pdf
Yes, that's the one. Quite an iconic tweeter and still going. I don't know if it can be put in a waveguide. Anyone know? I have a pair.
Just noticed that the Peerless version says it has a fabric dome. I think the original Vifa was a plastic dome.
https://www.parts-express.com/Vifa-D19TD-27-08-3-4-Poly-Dome-Tweeter-299-124?quantity=1
Just noticed that the Peerless version says it has a fabric dome. I think the original Vifa was a plastic dome.
https://www.parts-express.com/Vifa-D19TD-27-08-3-4-Poly-Dome-Tweeter-299-124?quantity=1
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If someone is going to design crossovers for any of the speakers mentioned they will need zma and frd files. If people have worked on specific speakers they may have them available. Otherwise they may need to be traced to text from plots on data sheets.
Or maybe there is another way. I suspect not.
Or maybe there is another way. I suspect not.
If you ask GPT with giving it the IEC baffle driver measurement and the T&S, then it will abstract the 2Pi to 4Pi with the baflestep curve in the format you wish according the panel width you as well gave. And if very polite with it, it has a look on the public webcam network around your block and ring you to say where is some wood or aluminium panel at the side of the road !
Anf if... very, very polite with ChatGPT, it will hack UberEat to bring you the wood in the street explaining to the guy with the bicycle the customer is a wood termite... you may have the chop sticks in bonus !
Anf if... very, very polite with ChatGPT, it will hack UberEat to bring you the wood in the street explaining to the guy with the bicycle the customer is a wood termite... you may have the chop sticks in bonus !
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.... Or : perhaps, but not sota : you apply grossly - 4 dB of bafle step around what you believe to be a valid baffle step transition, say maybe 400 hz something with 300 mm wide bafle, the low pass coil between 0.8 to 1.2 uH will do the rest and the resistors will atenuate the treble unit to match the level with the sim gentlemen did here ?!
With Vituix and a spl extractor (it is in Vituix ?) should be possible as you can not really measure below 400 hz at home ? Of course not what should be done, but feasible. Then cross the finger indeed for the offset spl response (that's why a recessed baffle would have been smoother than a 90° angle).
It will be impossible in this project to measure the driver in box on 180° with 10/15° increment. Hence the big interrest of already made projects.
Cut the turtle in two : you choose a kit and make in aluminium the cab according the plan.
With Vituix and a spl extractor (it is in Vituix ?) should be possible as you can not really measure below 400 hz at home ? Of course not what should be done, but feasible. Then cross the finger indeed for the offset spl response (that's why a recessed baffle would have been smoother than a 90° angle).
It will be impossible in this project to measure the driver in box on 180° with 10/15° increment. Hence the big interrest of already made projects.
Cut the turtle in two : you choose a kit and make in aluminium the cab according the plan.
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