In my search for a monster open baffle woofer I stumbled the W21 21" open baffle woofer. It looks interesting but the more I research Lii Audio the more something seems off. I cannot find much objective information on them. Most of the people talking about them seem to have conflicts of interest. Then I found there are more than one version of this driver....some may even be copies or made by another company?
The driver on Alliexpress looks very different from the one for sale on lii-audio.com website.
The first one seems to have a single voice coil, the latter double. The first one has a lowish QTS of 0.39 and MMS 201g while the other one sports QTS 0.82 and MMS 644g.
Normally I would assume the Alliexpress is fake but then I read this by caisson rj:
I am happy to see some people talking about Lii Audio Xizi founded in 2006 and Lii Song founded in 2016 which is a copy of the original Lii Audio. I visited both headquarter in Hangzhou and it was clear to know which one fake it. If you hold both speakers in hands it's is really obvious. The short story is that Xizi Lii Audio hired one guy to expand the business outside china and that guys screwed him and founded Lii Song and took the foreign market. There is currently quite a lot of new drivers made by Lii Audio that are coaxial drivers that are simply harder to copy for Lii Song so in the future you will see more and more drivers that Lii Audio will only sell. I am talking 21 inches coaxial stuff, premium range etc.
CAN SOMEONE SET THE RECORD STREIGHT? SHOULD I BOTHER WITH ANY OF THESE DRIVERS?
ALSO...IS A 21" DRIVER WITH A 201g MMS even realistic?
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005003529835421.html
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/w21/
Does anyone have experience with any of the Lii audio/Lii Song 15/18/21" woofers?
The driver on Alliexpress looks very different from the one for sale on lii-audio.com website.
The first one seems to have a single voice coil, the latter double. The first one has a lowish QTS of 0.39 and MMS 201g while the other one sports QTS 0.82 and MMS 644g.
Normally I would assume the Alliexpress is fake but then I read this by caisson rj:
I am happy to see some people talking about Lii Audio Xizi founded in 2006 and Lii Song founded in 2016 which is a copy of the original Lii Audio. I visited both headquarter in Hangzhou and it was clear to know which one fake it. If you hold both speakers in hands it's is really obvious. The short story is that Xizi Lii Audio hired one guy to expand the business outside china and that guys screwed him and founded Lii Song and took the foreign market. There is currently quite a lot of new drivers made by Lii Audio that are coaxial drivers that are simply harder to copy for Lii Song so in the future you will see more and more drivers that Lii Audio will only sell. I am talking 21 inches coaxial stuff, premium range etc.
CAN SOMEONE SET THE RECORD STREIGHT? SHOULD I BOTHER WITH ANY OF THESE DRIVERS?
ALSO...IS A 21" DRIVER WITH A 201g MMS even realistic?
https://www.aliexpress.com/i/1005003529835421.html
https://www.lii-audio.com/product/w21/
Does anyone have experience with any of the Lii audio/Lii Song 15/18/21" woofers?
The guy on Aliexpress looks to have the original Lii Audio driver, though he's not an official Lii Audio outlet, just an enthusiast. The 'Lii Audio' domain belongs to Lii Song in my understanding.
As a quick addition -the above applies to the first aliexpress link & the Lii Audio advertised / branded unit. I've just looked at the second Lii Song advertised / branded unit, and basically the same applies, just to different values: assuming Sd, Re, Mms, Cms & B*L are as advertised, then Qe, Qm, Vas & Fs, don't appear to line up, or visa versa (or any combination you feel like using), and that's only doing a quick check on the basics. Go figure. 
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I will steer clear of Lii Song....
In the meantime I found an interesting alternative for a quarter of the price. Made locally here in Thailand where I live.
--- GIP GPA-2199 21"
--- mechanical ---
Fs 32.834E+00 Hz Free air resonance
Qms 16.684E+00 Q mechanical
Vas 258.093E-03 m^3 Suspension compliance
Cms 60.410E-06 m/N 1/(suspension stiffness)
Mms 388.937E-03 kg Moving mass
Rms 4.809E+00 kg/s Mechanical resistance --- Qes 827.980E-03 Q electrical Re 5.277E+00 ohms Voice coil DC resistance Le 3.393E-03 Henries Inductance @1 kHz Z 28.949E+00 ohms Impedance @1 kHz BL 22.614E+00 Tm Motor force - Newtons/Amp Pe ** 0.000E+00 W Max Electrical Power --- electro-mechanical - -- Qts 788.833E-03 Q total no 1.037E+00 % 1/2-space ref efficiency @ 1m/1W 1-W SPL 92.175E+00 dB sensitivity at 1m on-axis 2.83V SPL 93.982E+00 dB sensitivity at 1m on-axis --- motor constants --- Krm 11.452E-03 ohms constant resistive motor impedance Erm 782.374E-03 exponent resistive motor impedance Kxm 89.699E-03 Henries constant reactive motor impedance Exm 609.767E-03 exponent reactive motor impedance --- End
Planning to use two of these per side. Should play down to the high 20s with a little EQ. Crossed to a 15" woofer somewhere between 90 and 120hz.
In the meantime I found an interesting alternative for a quarter of the price. Made locally here in Thailand where I live.
--- GIP GPA-2199 21"
--- mechanical ---
Fs 32.834E+00 Hz Free air resonance
Qms 16.684E+00 Q mechanical
Vas 258.093E-03 m^3 Suspension compliance
Cms 60.410E-06 m/N 1/(suspension stiffness)
Mms 388.937E-03 kg Moving mass
Rms 4.809E+00 kg/s Mechanical resistance --- Qes 827.980E-03 Q electrical Re 5.277E+00 ohms Voice coil DC resistance Le 3.393E-03 Henries Inductance @1 kHz Z 28.949E+00 ohms Impedance @1 kHz BL 22.614E+00 Tm Motor force - Newtons/Amp Pe ** 0.000E+00 W Max Electrical Power --- electro-mechanical - -- Qts 788.833E-03 Q total no 1.037E+00 % 1/2-space ref efficiency @ 1m/1W 1-W SPL 92.175E+00 dB sensitivity at 1m on-axis 2.83V SPL 93.982E+00 dB sensitivity at 1m on-axis --- motor constants --- Krm 11.452E-03 ohms constant resistive motor impedance Erm 782.374E-03 exponent resistive motor impedance Kxm 89.699E-03 Henries constant reactive motor impedance Exm 609.767E-03 exponent reactive motor impedance --- End
Planning to use two of these per side. Should play down to the high 20s with a little EQ. Crossed to a 15" woofer somewhere between 90 and 120hz.
If by 'original' you mean the unit shown on Aliexpress, that Mms figure just about lines up with the claimed Sd, Fs, Vas values, but according to their own data the 384.6cm2 Sd stated is roughly equivalent to a 10in driver, not a 21in (!) -which also means the stated SPL value is about 20dB higher than it should be if the other values are correct.
This is why I regretfully avoid Lii units, whether Audio, Song or whatever, because their own data often appears to be utter twaddle. I mean -a bit of deviation, most of us would accept. Production tolerances, even different climatic conditions can change some measured parameters, especially if you are relying on software to supply some of the fundamental values e.g. Mmd rather than physically measuring it. But there are limits 😉 and this isn't the first time (a long way from being the first time) that their own published data appears to be nonsensical. I've actually seen them list a driver with different data on different sites before now -both sets of which appeared to be technical nonsense. Why, how -pass.
This is why I regretfully avoid Lii units, whether Audio, Song or whatever, because their own data often appears to be utter twaddle. I mean -a bit of deviation, most of us would accept. Production tolerances, even different climatic conditions can change some measured parameters, especially if you are relying on software to supply some of the fundamental values e.g. Mmd rather than physically measuring it. But there are limits 😉 and this isn't the first time (a long way from being the first time) that their own published data appears to be nonsensical. I've actually seen them list a driver with different data on different sites before now -both sets of which appeared to be technical nonsense. Why, how -pass.
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If their tech info is accurate and reasonably priced, sure wish they were local.........
I have no idea about the technical specs of that driver. I chipped in because I've visited Lii Audio and had the owner show me the differences between his and the copy drivers. I didn't get to see any 21inchers though.
My Lii Audio F15s are the best deal I ever got on any drivers ever.
But counterfeiting in China is rampant, so I would only buy them from lii-audio.com directly.
But counterfeiting in China is rampant, so I would only buy them from lii-audio.com directly.
That site provides links to Lii Song, which the first post suggests is the copy. Endless confusion.
Lii Audio and Lii Song are the same company or 2 brands of the same company, I think. They intended to use different brands in different regions but apparently that caused a lot of confusion. So maybe they are consolidating on one brand.
From chatting with the owner (via an interpreter) that's not the case. The Lii Audio owner considers he has sufficient business selling only within China, outside China is the market where Lii Song has set themselves up. Buying online from the Lii Audio domain means you'll be dealing with Lii Song.