Nope.
Which ones have your heard?
IME it's just not the case if they are done right!
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I've observed that more and more of the "high-end" speaker manufacturers now feature a partially active speaker [analog] for their flagship models and the manufacturers that are doing anything close to innovative for the industry such as B&O, Grimm, Kii and Dutch & Dutch are fully DSP active.
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DSP allows you to subcontract out the electronics much more easily, then you can focus on your value-add being the s/w parameters, speaker enclosure, drivers and marketing.
From a hobbyist perspective I am not convinced I should invest in learning the art of passive XO development and a parts bin for experiments is just too pricy. So I want to try active, using simple tube based 2-way with XO around 300Hz (this frequency is a good place because it still allows practical use of horns for mid-treble). But I find there are not so many tube-based designs to take inspiration from, especially in recent years, although a 1st order should be ‘easy’ to do with one bottle.
From a hobbyist perspective I am not convinced I should invest in learning the art of passive XO development and a parts bin for experiments is just too pricy. So I want to try active, using simple tube based 2-way with XO around 300Hz (this frequency is a good place because it still allows practical use of horns for mid-treble). But I find there are not so many tube-based designs to take inspiration from, especially in recent years, although a 1st order should be ‘easy’ to do with one bottle.
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Well lets see. There is the DSP that's part of my Yamaha 5.1 surround receiver that I don't really like and seldom use, then there is the DSP that is part of my Sony head unit in my 96 Explorer that I don't use (one of there better models but a few years old).
My Pioneer head unit in my work truck has DSP but it is a $99.00 Wall Mart special that is pretty much terrible.
Then let's see, there are kernel level drivers that came with my high end desk top sound card. It is an ASUS Xonar Essence STXII. The sound card is by far the best sounding I have ever had and makes my PC based digital storage and play back capabilities as good as any of these audiophile grade ridiculously expensive external DACs that seem to be all the rage. But as good as the hardware is the software is pretty lame. The DSP is Dolby Pro Logic that is defeated. I have all of Windows effects defeated as well. Just sounds better with out them. IMHO
I once had the APO equalizer with the Peace interface installed for a while on another computer. I used the graphic EQ part of it for a little while but took it off because it was always drifting and causing memory address access violations that forced me to have to reboot all the time. I thought the parametric EQ made the playback sound over processed and unnatural.
Oh, my Mustang GT has Fords "Premium Shaker 12 speaker sound system" installed in it and it has DSP as well and it pretty much sucks but what are you going to do? Now days the car companies make it all but impossible to install an after market sound system seeing how they integrate everything into the head unit now and side impact air bags keep you from getting into the doors and installing additional speakers.
I probably will at some point in time build a box for a 15" sub and throw it in the trunk along with an amp and maybe swap out the stock speakers but I'm stuck with the stock head unit and it's DSP features.
So based on limited experience with comparatively low end mostly automotive hardware you have concluded that DSP is worthless.
I thought you were talking about something like the DEQX, MiniDSP/SHD, Accuphase processor, and several other high profile high performance audio processors intended for stereo music systems. Sort of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.. LOL
I have a HK Logic 7 in my car which is actually pretty decent - I had fairly low expectations.
I thought you were talking about something like the DEQX, MiniDSP/SHD, Accuphase processor, and several other high profile high performance audio processors intended for stereo music systems. Sort of like throwing the baby out with the bathwater.. LOL
I have a HK Logic 7 in my car which is actually pretty decent - I had fairly low expectations.
I like simplicity myself, but I would definitely welcome an easily adjustable digital crossover if I was starting from scratch with unknown drivers. Then, using what I’ve learned from that, proceed to a passive solution.
I have that capability in my car now, but the placement of another amplifier, along with cooling apparatus, makes it much more appealing to just use some established passive components tucked away off to the side. I was just wondering earlier if the nicer oem automotive systems are being made as active, or will in the future(?).
I have that capability in my car now, but the placement of another amplifier, along with cooling apparatus, makes it much more appealing to just use some established passive components tucked away off to the side. I was just wondering earlier if the nicer oem automotive systems are being made as active, or will in the future(?).
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I had a Mustang GT once and the only thing I was interested in listening to was the exhaust note, never used the radio.
Pretty much all OEM car audio systems are now active. They even employ volume-dependent response curves.
After-market "high-end" car audio makes use of DSPs that are very similar to the ones we use for our DIY "hi-fi". I am currently working on a car audio system and will be making use of a miniDSP model made for use with car audio (12V with speaker-level inputs). Another quality car audio DSP is the Helix line by Audiotec Fischer, a European brand.
As far as integrating with the car's audio system, the headunit output can be input into the DSP as either line-level or speaker-level. The headunit's processing can then be undone, different channels summed before implementing the EQ and crossover for the after-market speakers. This process is fine for general listening.
For high quality audio, a digital source can be sent directly to the DSP. For my application I will be using the SPDIF output from a DAP (digital audio player). It's just not possible any longer to replace the car's head unit with an after-market headunit.
Boa tarde,
Sorry for the late reply, had to work...
Yes, this are russian silver mica bypass caps. Meanwhile they´ve been exchanged with small value Jantzen caps - still have to decide which I like better in this combination, but differences are small and more a matter of taste than clearly good or bad.
Audible effect description is of course totally subjective - but for me personally a nice bypass cap often results in a little bit more openness and a little bit better defined 3-D panorama.
All the best
Mattes
Hehe.
Experience with the relevant gear is everything.
I had a Dolby sound engineer listening to my system not long ago.
He commented on how the crossovers done right were invisible (to the ear), how transparent, uncoloured, balanced and clear it all was, and he commented, I can hear it's all time aligned!
Interesting to have both tech folk, studio folk and muscian folk listen.
What they listen for, and expect...
I just swapped my analog active system crossed at 400hz to passive. Gave up one amp and 12 opamps for 5 large expensive crossover parts which I had on hand. REW measurements are surprisingly close and sonic differences are slight maybe a little sharper hit with active and the active might be cleaner at very high levels.
I could determine more differences when swapping preamps.
BTW large gauge inductors would have been a good investment 10 years ago. Some have tripled in price.
I could determine more differences when swapping preamps.
BTW large gauge inductors would have been a good investment 10 years ago. Some have tripled in price.
The MIT Rtx are fabulous and this is what I use in mines with a copper // according the driver type. I had not the luck to benchmark them with the russian Teflon F3 name type that are said to be the best russian Teflon over the rest they have for bigger capacitance...
The russian styren now are not as good than the MIT RTX in loudspeakers use, only their teflon can compete for what I 've read on various forums but anyway has not the same signature than the styren from Mit (now re sent as REL caps ?) both very soft and natural tones though.
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Right now I'm running two-ways using horns that are crossed over passively but corrected through FIR filtering in the PC. So, speaker correction before the DAC, but passive crossover between drivers. The passive crossover focuses on getting the slopes and phase overlap right. It doesn't even have to adjust the level between drivers because that is done in the FIR correction. This approach provides a lot of simplicity by minimizing the number of components in the chain.
I've learned that the harmonics produced by amplifiers, preamps, and DACs are key to getting good musical sound. So more ADCs and DACs in the chain, plus amplifiers with different harmonic content powering different parts of the spectrum simply isn't the right solution. Maybe if you do as Kevin has done and build 4 channels of SET amps, that could work. Linkwitz also used the same amps for all channels. This is a viable solution to me together with line level XO.
By the way, I do use an ADC for the turntable, so that the speaker correction can be applied to that source. But the ADC is of high quality (RMI ADI-2 Pro).
I've learned that the harmonics produced by amplifiers, preamps, and DACs are key to getting good musical sound. So more ADCs and DACs in the chain, plus amplifiers with different harmonic content powering different parts of the spectrum simply isn't the right solution. Maybe if you do as Kevin has done and build 4 channels of SET amps, that could work. Linkwitz also used the same amps for all channels. This is a viable solution to me together with line level XO.
By the way, I do use an ADC for the turntable, so that the speaker correction can be applied to that source. But the ADC is of high quality (RMI ADI-2 Pro).
Would seem to me that any component that produced audible "harmonic content" should be in the nearest dumpster.
They've been REL for a long time.. 🙂 I really like the RTX and RTE and use them extensively in my designs. Their TFT (teflon) is quite good too. The other one I use is the Vcap copper. I have not used them much in passive crossover applications. There are a lot of RTE and RTX caps in my 3 way line level analog crossovers, tape electronics and phono stages.
The Russian FT3 teflon is quite good particularly for the price, but I don't care at all for the FT1 and FT2 in EQ networks even though they have pretty tight tolerances - the end result hasn't been subjectively good.
Tell that to the tube and SET crowd.
I used to be in the camp that no distortion is the ultimate goal and I chased that for quite a while. But, over the past few years, I've come to realize that low distortion by itself does not mean good sound. And in fact, I prefer some low order distortion over no distortion at all.