I personally have always found this a very poorly written book. These days also pretty outdated.
I think the software can be tricky for people who are not familiar with other similar programs or SPICE programs.
Personally I am also still not an huge fan of the user interface either. But that's something that has been discussed already.
But I still think it's definitely not helping people.
All software has a learning curve. I find it helpful to try and think like the author. When I finish that process, I will be in a better position to ask for improvements.
Looking at the acknowledgements in Vituixcad tells me a lot. A lot that is good.
Speaking in general and metaphorically, not about you specifically, some people like to armchair quarterback when they know nothing of football. Vituixcad is not a fundamentals class. There are many basics books and software programs to start with. Or, start with Vituixcad and grow into it. Learning electronics fundamentals is still a must do. Some people here want to criticize the program when they don't even know what I = E/R means.
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Member
Joined 2003
Well, acoustic measurement, and electrical measurement of the driver is all tasks to be completed before using VituixCAD. Of course, you can follow the measurement guide word for word with high chance of success, but any error may leave you asking some questions like:
What is an impulse response?
What's FFT?
What is windowing?
How long is any frequency wavelength?
What does a reflection look like in the response?
What's phase?
How do I interpret this phase chart?
What's minimum phase and why should I care?
What's a timing reference?
Why no USB mic?
Whats diffraction?
What's baffle step?
What's sound power?
How do I design a crossover?
Why doesn't my impedance jig work?
The list goes on... This all falls under the pre-requisite mentioned.
You can teach that, but it won't be a simple basic instruction, it will be a course with multiple textbooks.
All those examples are exactly what I just said?
For things that can go wrong.
In most cases people don't need to know all those things.
I have had plenty of people from assembly and quality control, knowing absolutely nothing about speakers, some even having no interest in loudspeakers, who were perfectly fine of following instructions and giving perfect results.
Using programs like ARTA and the like. Knowing nothing about any of those words and terms you just mentioned.
In a lot of cases this was not on some overly expensive $100k measuring system, but just a simple, reliable measuring setup that EVERYONE can use in his living room. Even if you have a small living room.
Troubleshooting problems is like repairing electronics or mechanics.
Recognizing patterns and understanding issues.
You can't do that from textbooks, although people seem to believe that these days.
"We will just watch a YT video or read manual/textbook"
Good luck with that attitude, but there is no replacement for experience.
Some people also simply won't have the feel for it, no matter how many books they read and how much they try.
For the same reason that some people will never be good in playing an instrument, painting, reading or doing math.
There is absolutely nothing wrong with it, because we all have these things.
It only really helps to be honest about it, because that means the approach has to be adapted.
This doesn't have anything to do with being that armchair quarterback at all.
I see it as positive feedback. If a device doesn't work well, people don't want to use it.
If customers don't like your product, or things can be improved, you change accordingly.
As someone who made an awful lot of products, I only see customer feedback as something useful.
Yes, even if products or software is free, you have customers.
Otherwise this would be really the world upside down, that people just have to shut their mouth if they don't like anything?
Then you're basically saying that when your contractor screws up your new wall, you're not allowed to say anything about it?
Yes, software always has a learning curve, but sometimes that curve is unnecessarily steep just because the interface is absolute garbage. I am not saying that VituixCAD fall into category btw!!
It very often feels like a bad excuse especially in engineer software.
I get your point with knowing the basics, and to some extend I also agree.
But often one can ask the question if those basics are really needed on a practical level.
The answer is often, no they are not.
Still some people know those basics, but still have an amazing talent to use them the wrong way.
Member
Joined 2003
Teaching can be "hands on", maybe you need to change your definition. If you learn from experience, is it not something you have been taught? In my post-secondary school, we did half day of lecture/theory in textbook, other half of day spent in lab building, measuring, testing to gain real world experience of examples in theory class, it was all "teaching/learning" experience and requisite part of the course.
Basics are needed on a practical level if any understanding is to occur. Otherwise, the best that can happen is to become a monkey that knows what levers to flip. When I know the basics, I can flip some levers in vituixcad and begin to understand the basics I learned. Using vituixcad then becomes part of the lab work. Even if one diligently works on both, YMMV
Have a good day.
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You can bump your had three times, the fourth time you will understand the situation and won't bump your had anymore.
That is most definitely a form of teaching, learning and gaining experience.
Other things work the same way. Or did you completely stop gaining experience after school?
I don't really see how this is an answer to the things I mentioned?
But in the end it all depends on expectations.
Some people are totally fine being a monkey, as long as they get their things measured.
In fact, I have helped quite some people and friends successfully over the years this way.
By just telling them step by step what to do. Just measuring is often the easy part.
Somebody who is very good in woodworking, doesn't need to know all these ins and outs.
Often they even DON'T WANT to know all these things, they just want to make something beautiful.
Some people here make it sound that creating speakers is always done in total isolation.
Also seem to completely forget that not everyone here wants to spend all his time and effort in understanding loudspeakers and acoustics.
This is were a community is great, since everyone can help each other.
So no not everyone needs to know everything about FFT's, diffractions and formulas etc.
Although often it seems that the "perfect speaker tunnel vision" is the only thing allowed here......
(which is a non-existing goal by itself even)
Member
Joined 2003
Like most of your posts, now derailed to pointless bickering. Learning from past experience, I’ll limit future interactions.
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Like most of the posts, I am actually trying to teach something here.
Your welcome as well. Being a bit more positive and constructive isn't so hard you know.
Another part of this is actually responding to someone's arguments, instead of backing off with snarky comments.
Something people simply bluntly refuse to do.
Strange and very ironic mentality, especially in the subject of trying to understand and teach people things.
Very ironic.......if that's what you get out of all my posts. just LOL
Wow, I didn't mean to start a debate. :/
Thanks for all the feedback, folks.
It sounds like the bottom line is that I'm not prepared to take on VCAD at this point.
That's sad, but also realistic. I'll come back to it later if I have time to learn the other stuff first. I have plenty of other things that need to get done first, this just seemed like it might be fun. Oh well. 🙂
Thanks for all the feedback, folks.
It sounds like the bottom line is that I'm not prepared to take on VCAD at this point.
That's sad, but also realistic. I'll come back to it later if I have time to learn the other stuff first. I have plenty of other things that need to get done first, this just seemed like it might be fun. Oh well. 🙂
I'm here to learn more about vituixcad, A program for which I am grateful to Kimmo and his contributors. I want to spend more "time and effort in understanding loudspeakers and acoustics." There are threads at diyAudio for people who just want to know what levers to flip. I'm glad the vituixcad thread is not one of them.
Again, have a good day. EOM
VCAD is a lot of fun. It's also a very powerful tool. I see you have realistic expectations, and a life elsewhere. Please come back when you are ready.
Wouldn't it be wonderful if we could get an education dump like in the movie "Matrix"? Alas, we have to do it the hard way. 🙂
Maybe you don't want that, but other people maybe don't share that opinion.
Anyhow, the point is that you can't separate the two, even more so if you want to spend more time and effort in understanding loudspeakers and acoustics. I personally don't understand why you want to do that in a topic about a certain software tool?
In the end VituixCAD is just (another) tool, yes it's a great tool (nobody ever said it wasn't?)
But tools are not a replacement for knowledge and experience.
Member
Joined 2003
Takes one to know one.
Learning from past experience, I’ll limit future interactions. Perhaps your lessons learned and vast experience can be shared in it's own thread.
It's sad because IT IS NOT realistic.
It makes me very deeply sad when people get this feeling and impression.
I think everyone is prepared enough to use VituixCAD or any other tool for that matter.
As long as people get the right answers to their questions. (which they don't!)
Some people will be quicker than others, but everyone can learn things.
That being said, I think it will be better to respond in the new VituixCAD newbie topic 🙂
