Depends on the coax, the full range, how they are implemented, and whol the listener is.
The Art of Loudspeaker Design is the designers choice of compromises. You seem fine with the discontinuity shown in most coaxes (sans DSP), i am not.
There is no best. You can take a dozen equally valid loudspeaker designs and find they all sound different. And that is before you start talking about the amplifiers driving them.
I showed some science to show the discontinuity, it is there. How it affects the listeners enjoyment has a whole lot to do with t he listener.
dave
They are expensive, that does not suggest they are good. The whoops at the bottom are signs of a not all that well designed horn and the fuzz up top is strange. It is not a pretty impedance curve.
Probably in excess of 90% (or more) of full ranges are not worthy, there are a whole lot fewer coaxes, given the typical manufacturers, and the cost of R&D and the (weirdly) small market the poor ones don’t make it out of R&D.
dave
That "discontinuity" has abosolutely no impact on sound quality. If you can't see the measured step response, you will never know it there by (blind) listening only.
No, you didn't show how that "discontinuity" affects sound quality, nor how it affects any listener - including those with golden ears.
I can hear it. And my guess from the large numbers of people happily living with good FR drivers, that it goes beyond me. It is a key to the appeal of this kind of system.
In what way. If there was no discontinuity there would only be a single peak in the impulse. The tweeter is coming before the mid bass… the harmonic is heard before the fundemental, lots of stuff getting out of the envelope that contains the fundemental and its harmonics.
dave
So please tell us which are those 10% magical fulrange drivers?
Not all of them, just name one! With full measurements, please. (Measurements of the whole loudspeaker with single fullrange driver.)
And there are people which saw Elvis, too.
Yes, there is "discontinuity" there and "harmonic is heard before the fundemental", I know that, but I asked you for the proof that it impacts sound quality. Well?
No one can prove anything, only a preponderance of evidence… scince is always moving forward. And the statistics that are required to do that are not all that simple.
Sound reproduction and more importantly what th wear/brain perceives are vastly understudied.
And it matters not; what is important in the end is the enjoyment of the listener. My OK compromises are obviously not yours.
dave
Sorry, my bad. In science there is no "proof", but "evidence" only.
So, please show us science evidence that fullrange drivers have better sound quality than coaxials.
So, please show us science evidence that fullrange drivers have better sound quality than coaxials.
You want them, yuou measure them. They are but one parameter among many, but like the adage, if the only tool you have is a hammer, everything starts looking lkike a nail. FR charts are helpful, just skim the top, and are overanalzed and taken apart. I do not share my measurements, they are a tool.
dave
That is A/ far too broad, and given all the variables and B/ required evidence does not exist since we still don’t know how to evaluate/measure it/everything needed
"please show us science evidence that sports cars are better than sedans”
"please show us science evidence that 2 wheels are better than 4”
"please show us science evidence that PP amps are better than SE”
"please show us science evidence that SE amps are better than PP”
"please show us science evidence that tubes are better than transistors”
"please show us science evidence that transistors are better than tubes”
… vinyl and digital…
dave
Does not exixt for any loudspeaker, and even useful data is thin on the ground for most products.
A basik set (far from complete) requires a big anechoic chamber, a spin-o-rama, vibrometer, laser measuring tools, klippel for a start… and then the experience to be able to interpret the results.
dave
Add helper woofers with an XO below the quarter-wavelength of the XO frequency (ie drivers essentially coincident, much closer time-wise than a coax, no DSP needed). Releived of bass duties, used only as a midTweeter lets the FR perform to its best. Small compromise (low XO), for biig gain.
Caveat: the latter obviosuly costs much more than just the FR in a suitable box.
These are a bit more compromized than the above but fit my room better.
dave
Rarely there are fullrange which measure from the scratch near to perfect.
Like tectonic tebm46c20n-4b
Like tectonic tebm46c20n-4b
Last edited by a moderator:
Here RCF on the use of FIR dsp on multi ways
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-range-low-budget-project.396495/post-7295493
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...uild-more-coaxial-systems.397889/post-7352037
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...-range-low-budget-project.396495/post-7295493
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/...uild-more-coaxial-systems.397889/post-7352037