It's not clear how someone who has financial benefits of hifi may be moderator..
His opinion is absolutely not objective..
It will be interesting to compare Visaton B80 and SS 10F..
I agree this is very problematic and only people that don't have any financial interests should be allowed as moderators. How problematic this can be has been demonstrated in the Markaudio forum. Mark Fenlon deleted tons of posts that didn't fit his marketing narrative. He even went one step beyond that. But this is now all water under the bridge.
X,
Did you upload the REW data of your measurements somewhere? Thanks!
They are no longer linked to SS (haven't been for many years) so I couldn't see any reason why. I do hope the TC9 doesn't share it's faith. I think it is the steep decline in sales of these for television application that obviously was their original intend.
If you see the new line from Tymphany they make more and more smaller drivers that kind of resemble the TC9, only smaller but do not quite make it quality and specs wise (e.g. TC6 TC7 TC8). But also of the same diameter and slightly bigger (TC9FD00-04, TC10FG00-04). Looks like the Car market to me.
All new drivers seem to have stamped steel baskets.
planet10, unfair arguments against xrk971.
Even if xrk971 in that plot had measured on axis it's good stuff and if ruling out datasheets and just compare to other measurements taken by xrk971 is very high value, notice vertical range is less than 30dB and steps is 5dB.
Regarding privileges and probably misuse planet10, you had later removed a plot from #439 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-class-full-range-drivers-44.html#post4239654. It breaks picture link in these later posts over there, #452 wesayso, #459 xrk971, #464 BYRTT.
For many many hours it looked as this (i have a print the hole thread to MS .xps document printer):
Attach a zoomed in one too because that shows manufacture is aware CHN-70 performance, seems this is released to OEM only or what do i know and consumers get the other that is attached.
Even if xrk971 in that plot had measured on axis it's good stuff and if ruling out datasheets and just compare to other measurements taken by xrk971 is very high value, notice vertical range is less than 30dB and steps is 5dB.
Regarding privileges and probably misuse planet10, you had later removed a plot from #439 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-class-full-range-drivers-44.html#post4239654. It breaks picture link in these later posts over there, #452 wesayso, #459 xrk971, #464 BYRTT.
For many many hours it looked as this (i have a print the hole thread to MS .xps document printer):
Attach a zoomed in one too because that shows manufacture is aware CHN-70 performance, seems this is released to OEM only or what do i know and consumers get the other that is attached.
Attachments
If anything planet10 has proven that Markaudio graphs can't be trusted. How were these graphs measured?
Here's data by X, Markaudio and planet10 on the same scale. I don't see any resemblance between these curves.
Here's data by X, Markaudio and planet10 on the same scale. I don't see any resemblance between these curves.
Attachments
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Regarding the TG9, what drive levels were the distortion tests done at? I found that at low levels they measured well, but when you increased the volume you started to get horrible resonances through the pole vent. These resonances caused huge increases in the third and fifth harmonics, way above what I would consider acceptable. I got around this by removing the dustcap and installing a phase plug of my own.
It's a shame I don't have measurements for the driver before modification, needless to say they were not encouraging in their basic format.
It's a shame I don't have measurements for the driver before modification, needless to say they were not encouraging in their basic format.
Every single commercial forum on diyAudio, be it Vendor or Manufacturer, is a paid for location which the owner moderates as they wish. This is made very clear by Jason in the 'This is a commercial area' sticky thread announcement which is displayed at the top of each, and states:
Disclaimer: This Vendor's Forum is a paid-for commercial area. Unlike the rest of diyAudio, the Vendor has complete control of what may or may not be posted in this forum. If you wish to discuss technical matters outside the bounds of what is permitted by the Vendor, please use the non-commercial areas of diyAudio to do so.
No mysteries. No secrets. They are commercial. If you don't like it, don't post in them. If you have a problem with it, take it up with Jason. diyAudio is his forum, and it is his choice what he does with it. If you disagree, tough.
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I was talking about the non-commercial areas. Sorry if my post was unclear. planet10 can do whatever (?) he wants in his paid forum just like Mark Fenlon did. Vendors shouldn't be allowed to act as moderators in the non-commercial areas though.
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Then I recommend that you take your complaint up with Jason and the mod team. I have little doubt that they will be delighted to hear from you.
It's not about it being 'tough' it's about it being literally against what DIYaudio has always stood for - that being to have a healthy objective, or subjective, discussion about anything and everything audio.
Mark Fenlon is an extreme example of what happens when things go too far, it was impossible to have even an objective conversation within his forums s if what you said went against his products in even the slightest. This was even true if what you were discussing was entirely objective without any negative bias or intent.
The twisted pear forums are a perfect example, in my experience, of a paid for vendor forum, where the actual owners of said forum counter and address peoples queries/doubts without fear, with hard data and objective facts. Ie in the true sense of what DIYaudio is about.
I do not mind that the sub forums are self moderated by those who pay for them, but if a moderator within them is turning the forum into something that is not within the true spirit of DIYaudio then they should be asked to move along.
But that's the point. It ultimately is 'tough', whether we like it or not. The diyAudio forum belongs to Jason, and ultimately he makes the decisions about what he is or is not willing to have, not ourselves.
Regarding conditions he write (Earthworks M30 in anechoic chamber on IEC baffle using LMS).
Exactly no resemblance and probably why it removed, xrk971 did see it in #459 i commented in #464 and early on wesayso at #452 he trust in planet10 present the consumer datasheet overlayed and would probably had discovered later on if not the thread was not sent to cool off.
Don't think this documentation is funny and belong here, but because of todays unfair post did put light on. Can't stop thinking had datasheet reflected a smoothed one of that OEM or what to call the one that got deleted, CHN-70 had not been in the test because it wasn't a interesting driver for xrk971 then.
Looking forward FF105WK when time allows xrk971 measure and share.
Another thing were you aware for RS100-4 and RS100P-4 as tested by xrk971, it's possible to download dot zma file and .frd file on axis/15º/30º/45º from Dayton Audio, that's nice.
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I think Dayton Audio does a lot of nice things for DIY'ers - they have perhaps the widest breadth of product line, and their stuff can be very high quality for the price. The added info like full documentation such as .frd and .zma files as mentioned by Byrtt is very nice to have. Wish more manufacturers would do this. Some of Dayton's drivers even include full Klippel test results.
I think someone mentioned this before, if he could only have one brand of driver to work with for all his DIY projects, he would pick Dayton in a heartbeat. They make great sub woofer drivers, full range drivers, as well as pro audio drivers, and I think they are really aimed at the DIY market yet interesting how they don't need to be vocal or appear all bent out of shape on these forums when one of their drivers gets a less than a glowing review. Now with the RS100-4, PS95-8, there are some very cost effective choices in the full range area. The PS220-8 is also an interesting driver on paper - I haven't had the chance to test or listen to one personally though.
I think someone mentioned this before, if he could only have one brand of driver to work with for all his DIY projects, he would pick Dayton in a heartbeat. They make great sub woofer drivers, full range drivers, as well as pro audio drivers, and I think they are really aimed at the DIY market yet interesting how they don't need to be vocal or appear all bent out of shape on these forums when one of their drivers gets a less than a glowing review. Now with the RS100-4, PS95-8, there are some very cost effective choices in the full range area. The PS220-8 is also an interesting driver on paper - I haven't had the chance to test or listen to one personally though.
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You got those because it was suggested by mods that i send them them to you. I was going to post them in the now closed thread.
It is pretty error free to scale 2 drawings up accuratly, just line up the graticules so they match (i admit i didn't get the 1st 2 right, those got fixed). I have over 25 years of experience with PhotoShop and Illustrator (most of them done in the latter).
Your asserted that, with the exception of the MA CHN70, tour measures matched the factories. The set of scaled graphs show that that is not the case*. One would think that one would appreciate this kind of feedback.that is a pretty easy check of one's work. You certainly responded positively to the calls for you to improve your measuring technique to bring them up to a minimum standard -- although the graphs nowonly show the top 5 octaves.
Can you post am on-axis SS 10F FR chart that matches the others you have made? Please do not change the scale again -- use the same as you have already.
dave
I did replace the graphes where i had made an error with the horizontal scaling. After this was pointed out i fixed that problem and have paid ore attention to the scales used by XRK (many different ones).
Leaving incorrect data posted does noone any good.
dave
Planet10,
Why is it black line because it's a high resolution data that you try to explain is same as red line consumer datasheet that you had made an error to, but the error is too big those two not the same, and probably why you deleted because of realizing.
Why is it black line because it's a high resolution data that you try to explain is same as red line consumer datasheet that you had made an error to, but the error is too big those two not the same, and probably why you deleted because of realizing.
That's not nearly enough information.
What excitation signal was used (Noise? Sweep? Length?)?
What measurement technique was used?
What IEC baffles was used (there are different ones)?
How far was the mic placed from the baffle?
What's the lower cutoff frequency of the anechoic chamber?
I agree with Dave Planet10, none of xrk graphs are close to factory graphs. I also witness way of how Americans like to win argument, 6 out of 7 match, it is a lie and a lie used to win an argument, very American but not how discusions should be. That doesn't mean I think MarkFenlon wouldn't have left this forum without this very unfair example of discussing, or lets say very American way of discussing. He would have left anyway imho.