If one is wanting to design filters to make that application work properly then yes. If you are wanting to evaluate a number of drivers though then a standard reference is all you really need. The standard huge flat baffle, with the driver flush mounted in the centre, is pretty much perfect. It lets you see how the driver performs without any diffraction type issues affecting the performance.
Well, thanks to my Subjective Blind Comparo thread, hundreds of people now have heard what they sound like in comparison to 7 other drivers in the exact same setup - removed from having to deal with bass duties that are alignment dependent. This is the only way one can tell the differences intrinsic to the driver rather than the speaker as a whole. I have probably designed and built more speakers using the TC9FD around here than anybody, and I have now had the chance to compare this so-called $12 TV speaker with some leading-class offerings like the 10F/8424, FF105WK, 5MR450NDY, and you know what? Despite being a puny plastic framed lowly "TV speaker", it can hold its own given the excellent performance as measured. Before you continue maligning the Vifa as a cheap "TV speaker" have at least the patience to build one of the best cabinets that make it shine and listen to what others are calling as a great sounding speaker. The 0.4x Karlsonator is truly surprisingly great sounding - despite a non-flat response. The bass and mids via the K aperture are truly room filling, and the polar uniformity is better than any open face driver can hope to have. To top it off, no BSC is needed.
Your subjective test is incapable of letting people evaluate the drivers. They are listening to a recording of a 2-way speaker you made in your room with your system convolved with whatever system they are listening to.
It is fun. Everyone can pick a favorite. But there are far too many variables for any valid comparison of the actual drivers.
dave
The high Q of the TC9 make it such that any box large enuff will produce as much bass as there is. Any alignment that creates gain in the bass will have a big lump in the mid or upper bass. It really wants to be in an IB or an OB.
The box, except for diffraction artifacts will have little affect above a couple hundred cycles.
Ours are in a 5.5 litre sealed box. Undamped Q = 0.98, F6 =90 Hz. F10 = 73 Hz.
dave
hey planet10 - - I know Ive not done lot of measuring but would contend that certain speakers either due to size, diffraction or rising characteristics, will not always show an upper bass peak that is predicted in filter theory. I don't know "why"
look at this foam core mini-Karlsonator with TC9FD which I just sweep - its in very cluttered room sitting on top of a K12 sitting on other stuff - trace smoothed to 1/12 octave - I don't see what I would call peaking from excessive qts - it does rise to a cavity peak region.
I have seen 6dB of peaking with an 18" with q around 0.7 in reflex/K
from this perspective, I don't see peaking of great significance.
look at this foam core mini-Karlsonator with TC9FD which I just sweep - its in very cluttered room sitting on top of a K12 sitting on other stuff - trace smoothed to 1/12 octave - I don't see what I would call peaking from excessive qts - it does rise to a cavity peak region.
I have seen 6dB of peaking with an 18" with q around 0.7 in reflex/K
from this perspective, I don't see peaking of great significance.
Last edited:
Thanks for posting that response measurement of the 0.4x Karlsonator. Ain't no bass peaking here is there? This actually looks nicely balanced and probably sounds pretty good (actually, I know it sounds good as I built it and listened to it myself). Sticking a TC9FD in a sealed and stuffed prismatic box doesn't do it justice for sounding natural. The internal surfaces inside a 0.40x Karlsonator where the driver is mounted and back wall are all angled to avoid a parallel wall boxyness sound. Until one listens to one of these, you can't imagine what a TC9FD can do on its own as a full range speaker.
It is rough, but it follows the same trend as the sealed sim for out box.
What is the volume of the box you have them in? I expect it is large enuff to act as an IB and isnot producing any LF gain.
dave
house got down to freezing after a 40hr power outage - can't find my ruler to get its actual size - does the thin foamcore behave differently across the audio spectrum than wood? - fwiw I can hear a fair amount of highs through 1" pink board
A Karlsonator is a ML-TQWT with K-aperture output, it definitely has bass gain. Can be seen in simulations as well as measurements. GregB can confirm - but it is definitely more than an IB. You won't get 80Hz bass knee out of a 6 liter box as an IB.
Dimensions of the 0.4x Karlsonator are here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239338-mini-karlsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-56.html#post3880182
Dimensions of the 0.4x Karlsonator are here:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/239338-mini-karlsonator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-56.html#post3880182
Last edited:
here's a rough comparison of the mini Karlsonator/Vifa TC9FD with port blocked with a roll of thin polyfill stuffed in front of its port vs normal operation - I have to unplug my refrigerator to do this stuff so may have not got the best traces - but one can see the general difference.
how do some of the mini-Onken look on graphs with ports open vs ports blocked?
1/12 octave smoothing
a little Acoustic Control 115BK ~ ground plane outdoors - port open vs port blocked with cardboard
how do some of the mini-Onken look on graphs with ports open vs ports blocked?
1/12 octave smoothing
a little Acoustic Control 115BK ~ ground plane outdoors - port open vs port blocked with cardboard
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Last edited:
Id' ask if any can play a realistic sounding snare drum over its natural dynamic range - or which sounds best with Clara Butt or Boris Gmyria or which does the best with the drop of Mickey Hart's "Beast" rig on DAFOS- - I'd probably think all were "toys"
are your vents designed to be semi resistive? - they look cool and elegant with the cut corners.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
This speaker's frequency response doesn't look very flat. It costs $1008 (a Seas Exotic 8"). I guess it is in the running for worst bang for the buck.
Does anyone know what the frequency response of a Lowther looks like?
Yes. The extra R term pushes a bass reflex box towards aperiodic and makes them more tolerant of the dynamic changes of T/S parameters.
dave
This speaker's frequency response doesn't look very flat. It costs $1008 (a Seas Exotic 8"). I guess it is in the running for worst bang for the buck.
Does anyone know what the frequency response of a Lowther looks like?
That driver has some unique properties. Not only the price 🙂
You would need to equalize the driver on axis to make it sound right though. Like any large full range driver the listening area will be very narrow.
Interesting question 😀
But then we will hear about frequency response not being important...
Regards