The main reason why CDs and later MP3s took over the mainstream is convenience.
Most people are not in for sound quality, just convenience.
A cheap CD player will outdo even a mid-fi turntable.
MP3... pffft... just a bump on the road ( I warned my coworker in '05 not to get rid of his CD collection after he'd ripped it all into VBR MP3.. he did. Fool ).
This is why my recommendation for the OP stands... unless the OP is willing to spend $4K in a reasonable system with a used turntable, good cartridge and phono preamps, he might as well spend $1K on a DAC, USB OTG cable, Android tablet and some streaming source. I prefer Tidal, but he says he can't get that one.
Well, we are here now, so I will just test it out and see what happens. I am already looking for a replacement.
There seems to be a disagreement about what one has to get to avoid destroying records. If I only play the record once to convert to FLAC and it sounds good, then that serves the purpose.
There seems to be a disagreement about what one has to get to avoid destroying records. If I only play the record once to convert to FLAC and it sounds good, then that serves the purpose.
Yes it is a Realistic LAB 500.
The M audio is 24bit and very low noise. I set the level so that it is 3db below Clip this requires sitting through the loudest passage to adjust level. Some records sound better then the cd some are noticeably dull on the high end. Apparently there is an EQ process for the cutter in addition to reverse RIAA.
Sometimes there is a lisp, weak treble or muddy bass, however most rips are excellent.
The M audio is 24bit and very low noise. I set the level so that it is 3db below Clip this requires sitting through the loudest passage to adjust level. Some records sound better then the cd some are noticeably dull on the high end. Apparently there is an EQ process for the cutter in addition to reverse RIAA.
Sometimes there is a lisp, weak treble or muddy bass, however most rips are excellent.
It only takes one pass of the stylus to do damage, especially with louder, hard to track HF content. Most of rhe time, the moment you hear sibilance, its too late. The quality of raw vinyl used in the pressing can also have a factor in this.
Mp3 isn't even a valid format for music listening. It was designed for voice communications, not for music. It plain sucks and always will. Any compression algorithm for that matter is going to be the same for me.
I have thousands of CDs and most sound better than the used vinyl versions you can find, plus mony often come with extra tracks not released on vinyl. As long as the CD isn't a "remastered" version done past rhe early 90s, it will sound great on decent gear. A $200 CD player feeding a properly configured $2000 RME adi pro2 dac will sound better than 99% of $5000+ digital setups.
That being said, I love vinyl. I woildn't give it up if I had the choice. Played correctly, it can blow the same digital copy of music out of the water. You can get close with a decent micro line MC cartridge on a heavily modded SL1200 for about $1000, plus the phono pre. Roughly $2000 spent here can get you very close to the same money spent on digital.
The record arrived earlier than I expected, it was supposed to arrive on the 14th of June, but with a knock on the door I received a thin, rectagular package that left no doubt that it was a record.
The vinyl was in very good condition for what I paid for it, around $10 including shipping off a vendor on Ebay. I placed it on the turntable, and, without adjustment, promptly placed in on the wrong track, I had chosen track 4 on side B as the sacrificial track, so I quickly changed to that.
The song came out through the onboard speaker, clear, if not loud. Next were the headphones plugged in to the line out port.
All expectations were fulfilled in a few seconds of listening. The sound was equal on both channels, and full. Details I had never heard since I first listened to the CrO2 cassette in 1984 on my 'personal stereo' with headphones and on the home Hi-Fi system, details came to light. The sound of the vinyl, I would not call it warm but 'fluid' flowed out through the device. I wasted no time in using the on board USB recording function. Once again, the unit did not disappoint. Initially, the sound levels were very low, but with the 'normalization' on Audacity, everything was set right.
Wow and flutter was inaudible to me, and the particular track I played had a natural wow to it, a pitch change that seemed about right. Quickly placing my phone on a roll of tape and the turntable, hurriedly a little off centre, netted the result of 33 and 34 rpm, with 0.22% . This had been my main concern.
How was it possible, then, that a decades old format, played over a $34 player which is your worst nightmare, could sound so good? I could only imagine what awaited me with the proper equipment and upgraded speakers. The quality of sound that I heard on YouTube was suddenly confirmed beyond all doubt in front of my very eyes.
I am now in a quandry: do I play the thing once, and only once, and get the sounds in an mp3 (which, by the way, sounds very very good - for an mp3) or do I shelve the record and wait for a few months for a gentler stylus to preserve my records? I think I will run the record once, and record it. A few records of lower quality will be just fine for the next process - getting good music and converting it.
I have requested a relative to repair and ship the JVC turntable that was promised to me, so things are looking up.
The whole point of the exercise was to find out if vinyl was worthwhile, right now it seems to be the only thing that is.
The vinyl was in very good condition for what I paid for it, around $10 including shipping off a vendor on Ebay. I placed it on the turntable, and, without adjustment, promptly placed in on the wrong track, I had chosen track 4 on side B as the sacrificial track, so I quickly changed to that.
The song came out through the onboard speaker, clear, if not loud. Next were the headphones plugged in to the line out port.
All expectations were fulfilled in a few seconds of listening. The sound was equal on both channels, and full. Details I had never heard since I first listened to the CrO2 cassette in 1984 on my 'personal stereo' with headphones and on the home Hi-Fi system, details came to light. The sound of the vinyl, I would not call it warm but 'fluid' flowed out through the device. I wasted no time in using the on board USB recording function. Once again, the unit did not disappoint. Initially, the sound levels were very low, but with the 'normalization' on Audacity, everything was set right.
Wow and flutter was inaudible to me, and the particular track I played had a natural wow to it, a pitch change that seemed about right. Quickly placing my phone on a roll of tape and the turntable, hurriedly a little off centre, netted the result of 33 and 34 rpm, with 0.22% . This had been my main concern.
How was it possible, then, that a decades old format, played over a $34 player which is your worst nightmare, could sound so good? I could only imagine what awaited me with the proper equipment and upgraded speakers. The quality of sound that I heard on YouTube was suddenly confirmed beyond all doubt in front of my very eyes.
I am now in a quandry: do I play the thing once, and only once, and get the sounds in an mp3 (which, by the way, sounds very very good - for an mp3) or do I shelve the record and wait for a few months for a gentler stylus to preserve my records? I think I will run the record once, and record it. A few records of lower quality will be just fine for the next process - getting good music and converting it.
I have requested a relative to repair and ship the JVC turntable that was promised to me, so things are looking up.
The whole point of the exercise was to find out if vinyl was worthwhile, right now it seems to be the only thing that is.
Problems with skipping
Initial testing on track 4 side B showed no skipping at all, but after my cleaning and wiping attempt, there is quite a bit of skipping on almost all tracks.
The record is a little warped to begin with, and the type of turntable I have could be responsible. I never encountered this much skipping on any turntable I used in the past, including the Yorx all in one unit.
Let me see if I can trace this fault. If all that is needed is a better record or turntable, that will be fixed soon enough.
Initial testing on track 4 side B showed no skipping at all, but after my cleaning and wiping attempt, there is quite a bit of skipping on almost all tracks.
The record is a little warped to begin with, and the type of turntable I have could be responsible. I never encountered this much skipping on any turntable I used in the past, including the Yorx all in one unit.
Let me see if I can trace this fault. If all that is needed is a better record or turntable, that will be fixed soon enough.
Skipping much less after stylus inspection and cleaning with a sponge.
Before and after: (USB microscope). Looks like they were right about taking cleaning seriously.
Again, stylus has picked up dirt, which may have been the reason for skipping on last track. Dirty just visible in mobile phone blurry photo.
Stylus brush is all I need? Magic eraser? Sponge? By the way that 'dirty stylus' in the picture is much worse.
https://uturnaudio.com/pages/how-to-clean-your-stylus
Before and after: (USB microscope). Looks like they were right about taking cleaning seriously.
Again, stylus has picked up dirt, which may have been the reason for skipping on last track. Dirty just visible in mobile phone blurry photo.
Stylus brush is all I need? Magic eraser? Sponge? By the way that 'dirty stylus' in the picture is much worse.
https://uturnaudio.com/pages/how-to-clean-your-stylus
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Recording is simple: attach an USB drive to the USB port, turn the volume knob to power on, and place the stylus on the record.
Next, press the REC button briefly until the green LED starts flashing ( the LED is off in the picture, in between flashes), and the music will be recorded to a folder named TAPEMP3 that the hardware creates on its own, and saves the first file as FV0001.mp3, each subsequent file being named 0002 and so on.
Recording quality is good, even on both channels, and very close to the direct output from the LINE OUT to headphones.
When processing the files, should I normalize or amplify or something else.
I notice the signal does not seem to be the same strength on L and R channels, however, sound with my HP laptop from 2015 and Sony labelled headphones, sound is very clear, fluid, and pleasant. I have been listening to this album on tape since 1984, and I still have the tape that is in very bad condition now. The quality of sound is better than I ever heard on tape (personal stereo), and as for the playback on the home Hi-Fi rack system, a Technics, we did not pay any attention to details too much, just wanted it loud. Sound quality was good, as far as I remember, a good tape deck can do wonders.
Next, press the REC button briefly until the green LED starts flashing ( the LED is off in the picture, in between flashes), and the music will be recorded to a folder named TAPEMP3 that the hardware creates on its own, and saves the first file as FV0001.mp3, each subsequent file being named 0002 and so on.
Recording quality is good, even on both channels, and very close to the direct output from the LINE OUT to headphones.
When processing the files, should I normalize or amplify or something else.
I notice the signal does not seem to be the same strength on L and R channels, however, sound with my HP laptop from 2015 and Sony labelled headphones, sound is very clear, fluid, and pleasant. I have been listening to this album on tape since 1984, and I still have the tape that is in very bad condition now. The quality of sound is better than I ever heard on tape (personal stereo), and as for the playback on the home Hi-Fi rack system, a Technics, we did not pay any attention to details too much, just wanted it loud. Sound quality was good, as far as I remember, a good tape deck can do wonders.
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At this point, my recommendation would be: Yes! Get an USB turntable, the cheapest you can find, and a record for destructive testing, and find out all you can about playing, recording, wow and flutter, stylus cleaning, record cleaning, without messing up a high quality turntable.
Just my opinion.
I would not recommend this compact format, I ordered it because the full size turntable could not be delivered here at a reasonable cost. Things may have changed by now. I have tested this model and I know what it does. Another turntable may have its own problems.
The on-board speaker is convenient for monitoring output sound when recording to USB.
I have not tried direct recording from LINE OUT to LINE IN/ phono mini stereo / mic connection on my computer, that will be next.
Just my opinion.
I would not recommend this compact format, I ordered it because the full size turntable could not be delivered here at a reasonable cost. Things may have changed by now. I have tested this model and I know what it does. Another turntable may have its own problems.
The on-board speaker is convenient for monitoring output sound when recording to USB.
I have not tried direct recording from LINE OUT to LINE IN/ phono mini stereo / mic connection on my computer, that will be next.
The different L and R strength is probably related to the album's production, at least, that's the issue on many of my conversions. I use the Normalise Audacity setting, which increases the source gain by a set same amount, i.e. the instruments/vocals maintain their relative loudness. I've used this tool many times, even on new CDs where the transfer level is very low.
Geoff
I used normalize and I used amplify, the question is whether there is any advantage since amplify will push the signal past the peaks, but sound louder than the normalize setting does. What about 'Loudness Normalization?'
Just checking: compression ( a moderate amount ) can it be of any use in this situation?
Just checking: compression ( a moderate amount ) can it be of any use in this situation?
Skipping problem solved (partly).
I guessed that the skipping on some tracks could be fixed by decreasing the anti-skating force. There was no way to adjust this on the EZcap, however I had an idea: what if I attached a weight to the tone arm and slung it over the side of the player? That worked, and the sound quality was not affected. I played through one complete track without skipping. This means this player can be used to transfer records to mp3 even if they are damaged, if someone wants to use this thing anyway, to get started in vinyl. The effect may be due to an increase in tracking force of about 1.4 g, I can reduce the weight of the tether by using fishing line, for example.
It seems like it is record damage, since some tracks play without skipping, and the same repeated section of the song does not cause skipping every time, for example, if there was too much bass.
Apparently the suspended weight anti-skating system is used on some brand name turntables.
https://support.interdyn.com.au/sup...-anti-skating-weight-for-and-how-do-i-use-it-
https://pearlaudiovideo.com/products/pro-ject-anti-skate-weight-1
I should mention that this is not a permanent solution. I will be getting this record onto mp3 and .wav, and then purchasing a few more records that are in G+ condition, and try to convert some of my older, scratched records.
I am not waiting any longer to get the music I want, even a few months. I have a lot of music ahead to listen to, and the sooner I get started, the better.
The USB turntable experiment is going very well, the sound is about 80% of what I hear on the same track on You Tube, which is probably a vinyl rip anyway. Less detailed, a little more muted, but better than cassette.
This is with conversion to mp3. With a direct RCA connection to the PC and FLAC, it should be much better.
New records will be used on a new turntable, when I get one, in a few months.
I guessed that the skipping on some tracks could be fixed by decreasing the anti-skating force. There was no way to adjust this on the EZcap, however I had an idea: what if I attached a weight to the tone arm and slung it over the side of the player? That worked, and the sound quality was not affected. I played through one complete track without skipping. This means this player can be used to transfer records to mp3 even if they are damaged, if someone wants to use this thing anyway, to get started in vinyl. The effect may be due to an increase in tracking force of about 1.4 g, I can reduce the weight of the tether by using fishing line, for example.
It seems like it is record damage, since some tracks play without skipping, and the same repeated section of the song does not cause skipping every time, for example, if there was too much bass.
Apparently the suspended weight anti-skating system is used on some brand name turntables.
https://support.interdyn.com.au/sup...-anti-skating-weight-for-and-how-do-i-use-it-
https://pearlaudiovideo.com/products/pro-ject-anti-skate-weight-1
I should mention that this is not a permanent solution. I will be getting this record onto mp3 and .wav, and then purchasing a few more records that are in G+ condition, and try to convert some of my older, scratched records.
I am not waiting any longer to get the music I want, even a few months. I have a lot of music ahead to listen to, and the sooner I get started, the better.
The USB turntable experiment is going very well, the sound is about 80% of what I hear on the same track on You Tube, which is probably a vinyl rip anyway. Less detailed, a little more muted, but better than cassette.
This is with conversion to mp3. With a direct RCA connection to the PC and FLAC, it should be much better.
New records will be used on a new turntable, when I get one, in a few months.
Reading this colossal take-down of the Crosley
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=114458&start=60
https://www.vinylengine.com/turntable_forum/viewtopic.php?t=114458&start=60
Audacity was used to slow down the speed of the song. The turntable rpm app suggested that the turntable was turning at 33.93 rpm which needed a correction factor of 0.982 to get it down to 33.31. A song that was listed at 5:07 now played for 5:12 seconds, that is 307 seconds vs 312 seconds, an increase of 1.6 %, which is close to the readout on the rpm app. The entire side, (almost) however, was originally 18 minutes, 54.341 seconds was stretched to 19 minutes, 15.134 seconds, an increase of 1134.341 1155.34 of 1.85%.
Makes me wonder how fast my 1980s personal stereo was playing at, I know the boombox was fast because recordings from the Home Hi-Fi system always were faster by a noticeable amount.
Makes me wonder how fast my 1980s personal stereo was playing at, I know the boombox was fast because recordings from the Home Hi-Fi system always were faster by a noticeable amount.