I see. I had taken note that the Neumann head is attached to the end of a swing-arm, while Ortofon head is mounted sans any such swing-arm mechanism.
According to Fritz Nygaard of Ortofon, and some current-day cutting engineers that I have communicated with, due to the varying mechanical load on lacquer and cutting stylus, the actual cutting angle varies by about 5 degrees across a given lacquer master, with the instantaneous value dependent on both signal characteristics and groove diameter. Since the flexure will occur in opposition to the direction of travel, it would seem that the actual cutting angle will initially be 90 degrees (and not exceed this), reducing to as low as 85 degrees depending on signal content.
The Arché headshell by Acoustical Systems is made in such a manner.
Acoustical system
Thank you so much for the references!
Much appreciated, jonathan carr
In alignment with Jonathan's comments, about 15 years ago I reached out to 3 of the top cutting engineers who indcated that the cutter head SRA was 1) not calibrated 2) could/would differ from each engineer/cutting head. So, each LP could have a different optimal SRA depending upon who engineered and when the LP was cut.
I'm not shocked to find an aspect of record cutting has no defined standard. With so many moving and interacting variables at play during the process getting a good result is akin to magic.
Though obviously, all those engineers you spoke to are wrong Mikey Fremer is right, the required angle is always 92.216431895422 degrees, or whatever schtik he's trying to push this week.
I have often wondered, if most of the noise measured in a tt bearing is stylus tracing noise, and its at say -70db, what would it be upon its return through the structure?
Answers on a decoupled spindle adaptor to...
Though obviously, all those engineers you spoke to are wrong Mikey Fremer is right, the required angle is always 92.216431895422 degrees, or whatever schtik he's trying to push this week.
I have often wondered, if most of the noise measured in a tt bearing is stylus tracing noise, and its at say -70db, what would it be upon its return through the structure?
Answers on a decoupled spindle adaptor to...
And to make matters worse regarding VTA/SRA, all LPs are warped to some degree. Uneven surfaces cause SRA/VTA modulations. So, 92.2xxx degrees is BS. In the end, you have to get close to 90-94 degrees then adjust for 1 LP based upon your hearing.
I use a microscope, which is what I shared with the late Wally Maliwiecz (who lived about 10 miles from me in MN) who then taught Fremer how to use this technique. The microscope is used to get 92 degrees, then tune by ear. In the end, there is no magical SRA/VTA that works for all LPs.
Another more useful use of the microscope is to set Azimuth. Never trust the body of the cartridge or cantilever.
I use a microscope, which is what I shared with the late Wally Maliwiecz (who lived about 10 miles from me in MN) who then taught Fremer how to use this technique. The microscope is used to get 92 degrees, then tune by ear. In the end, there is no magical SRA/VTA that works for all LPs.
Another more useful use of the microscope is to set Azimuth. Never trust the body of the cartridge or cantilever.
Certainly the cutter-head brochures that I have seen give the VTA value or range, but make no comment about SRA.
Normally, when a number is not specified in an engineering drawing, it is because the number is not special; i.e., blindingly obvious.
90º or 0º would qualify, but so would a number that moves around due to the structure continuously flexing under a varying load.
Normally, when a number is not specified in an engineering drawing, it is because the number is not special; i.e., blindingly obvious.
90º or 0º would qualify, but so would a number that moves around due to the structure continuously flexing under a varying load.
Your, among others, extreme views and designs concerning this subject are of course welcome, and certainly invite comparison to anyone reading them.
And certainly not a crime.
My point of view centers on practicality, some may say sensibility, and the average consumer's level of just how much quality is justified for a given amount of satisfaction.
Obviously not everyone is concerned with "intellectual" or "ultimate" as you appear to be, and a healthy balance of discussion allows others reading to make up their own minds.
Just like someone going to a shoe store, trying on shoes, and deciding what they liked the best.
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There is an appropriate time, place and occasion for everything, perhaps even the mediocre-ability point of view.
But a thread that explicitly contains the word "Ultimate" in its title is undoubtedly not aimed at the average consumer.
But a thread that explicitly contains the word "Ultimate" in its title is undoubtedly not aimed at the average consumer.
idealism vs pragmaticism
Again, in general I agree with you but in this case the OP and the people engage in this thread are not "average consumers." In fact, we even have a notable cartridge designer participating here - thank you for your participation, Mr. Carr! Hell, average consumers would not even bother to visit such forum as they would simply stream everything digitally and there's nothing wrong with that either. I probably will never be able to afford the best coffeemaker, but one can still dream and even though a good cup of coffee is good enough. A Timex watch can tell time just as good as the most expensive watches but people still shell out money for a Patek Philippe!
This thread is rather tame compare to, say, forums like "whatsbestforum.com" if you want to see fanaticism.
Again, in general I agree with you but in this case the OP and the people engage in this thread are not "average consumers." In fact, we even have a notable cartridge designer participating here - thank you for your participation, Mr. Carr! Hell, average consumers would not even bother to visit such forum as they would simply stream everything digitally and there's nothing wrong with that either. I probably will never be able to afford the best coffeemaker, but one can still dream and even though a good cup of coffee is good enough. A Timex watch can tell time just as good as the most expensive watches but people still shell out money for a Patek Philippe!
This thread is rather tame compare to, say, forums like "whatsbestforum.com" if you want to see fanaticism.
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The comments of this thread can obviously be viewed by anyone, including your "average consumer".
To say "they wouldn't bother" to read it is obviously a loose statement coming from you.
How would you know?..... to justify that?
Dude, now you're just trolling! There is a view count of each thread. So far this thread had slightly over 7000 views with 150 posts so on average there are about 47 views per post while the average consumers on facebook click billion times!
And how would I know? Because unlike some people I have friends and friends of friends and friends of friends of friends and none or close to none of them are into vinyl so it is not a reach to draw that conclusion. Vinyl is just no longer a mainstream medium consumed by the average consumers.
What is it with you that you just have to crap on every thread when people are having fun? This is a hobbyist forum. Let people have fun. Stop raining on people's parade. You got called out on the thread about belt thickness changing speed and left quietly so why don't you do the same here. You might be "wise" but you have no grace.
When he's talking about the "rumble" added by a variable-depth lathe, it is discussing the up-down adjustment movement of the depth system in the cutter head drop box imposing its own signal on the groove.
Like a variable-pitch system responds to (future) magnitude of signal by advancing the carriage more quickly, the variable-depth system on some late-model lathes ensures that only the minimum required depth is cut, to keep the groove narrow except when more vertical modulation is needed from out-of-phase signal. One must cut deeper in total to prevent the "peaks" of a vertical modulated waveform from becoming too light and narrow of a cut.
One would need to look at the schematics of the Neumann variable depth electronics to see lowpass characteristics of the adjustment, and come up with a description of the signal added by it, which is probably lower than 10Hz.
As far as spec: "On stereophonic records, the instantaneous groove width should preferably be not less than 0.025mm, the average groove width should preferably be not less than 0.035mm" Depth = width / 2. One can cut much wider and deeper grooves, but a wide groove will use up disc real estate.
Your instance on arguing has made me weary already.
What YOU state it seems is the ONLY thing that matters..... and that narrowmindedness doesn't fit in my world.
I come across types like you on occasion, the world is loaded with them.
As for that insane belt thickness discussion, I came to the conclusion that I was dealing with stubborn individuals, so why bother to continue, I might as well talk to a toddler, or a wall.
Feel free to continue with whatever blabber you desire, for yes, I'm done in this thread. 😎
There are almost 200 pages spread on 5 manuals about how this thing works and 2/3rd of them are the electronic schematics...
Attachments
The TT1000 was an excellent rig. I did my apprenticeship with Marantz Aus and had the opportunity to play (setup) the TT1000 many times for demos. The MD was an audiophile and asked me to bring in my LP12 to go head to head with the TT1000.
There are a few DD TT's that use slotless motors Kenwood KD550/650 Luxman and surprisingly the new Audio Technica AT LP1240.
These days I would love to hear the SAT XD1. From what I can glean from the very limited information printed MG has concentrated on motor rigidity and damping of motor vibration.
So what I take away is
Motor stator rigidly mounted to the TT frame. It's mentioned about motor mounting and preload. My assumption here is that SAT have machined a new motor housing and mounting arrangement to increase rigidity.
I measured bearing flex in the SP10mk2 motor. With the motor housing mounted in the lathe and a test indicator in the bearing housing with finger pressure I could flex the bearing 0.01mm easily. I did check lathe bearing flex at the edge of a 8" chuck and hardly registered on the indicator.
Ignoring speed as most TT's these days are stable.
Areas to improve are.
1) Bearing/motor rigidity and vibration control.
2) Vibration control/damping of plinth and platter
3) Rigid but de-coupled spindle to arm interface.
4) Coupling the LP to the platter vacuum hold down being the ideal peripheral ring also works quite well.
I found a resin/bentonite plinth addressed 1 & 2 quite well. My plan is to make a new minimalist plinth from Permali to address 3 as well. 4 I use a peripheral ring.
And still doubt that any noise or signal from variable-depth could be considered "rumble", as this is the first I've ever seen such an idea contemplated even academically - It might rather be described more like a micro-warp, as we slowly move 0.1mm deeper to anticipate the start of "vertical modulation tracing test" I sent to be mastered. A cartridge will tend to follow instead of transcribe low frequencies below tonearm resonance.
With amp signal disconnected and some worst-case full-modulation test pulses, one could cut only the output of variable depth into a silent groove.
With only a 2 gram weight resting on the spinning platter, I'm not convinced, beyond eliminating precession, than bearing flex is a real issue.
