Ping pong is fun though... I didnt claim Sir Winston Churchill first penned the words... I did say:
"I support the great Sir Winston Churchill philosophy which he summarised in the Houses of Parliament in 1941:" 😉
Series 3-way is live!
I put my test crossovers in enclosures and took measurements. Tweaked with DSP PEQ.
Previous post with picture of the baffle and drivers.
Other post showing how I was using 3-way active DSP until today.
Measurement image shows:
), but the general approximation is valuable for me.
The active 3-way sounded really good and looks better +/- overall, but I’m happy to be able to easily switch out power amps again. AND bring my Iron Pre back from its slumber.
Edit: I rotated the little coils in the boxes to be perpendicular to the big coils after an astute comment from @xrk971.
I put my test crossovers in enclosures and took measurements. Tweaked with DSP PEQ.
Previous post with picture of the baffle and drivers.
Other post showing how I was using 3-way active DSP until today.
Measurement image shows:
- Red - Before EQ w/ series crossover
- Gold - After EQ w/ series crossover
- Cyan - 3-way active DSP crossover
- Violet - EQ w/ former parallel crossover
- Measurements taken with MiniDSP umik and REW from the listening position (~2m), on-axis with the mid, psychoacoustic smoothing
), but the general approximation is valuable for me.The active 3-way sounded really good and looks better +/- overall, but I’m happy to be able to easily switch out power amps again. AND bring my Iron Pre back from its slumber.
Edit: I rotated the little coils in the boxes to be perpendicular to the big coils after an astute comment from @xrk971.
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Here are some sexi looking open baffles i heard at last capital audio show. Very nice sound.
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I guess now that Thigpen’s patent has expired we will see more of those. I have run across those before, thanx for the meory jog.
There are some interetsing planars and ESLs coming out of Europe.
dave
@bjarnetv: Had I been able to PM you with this question then I would have done, so apologies to everyone for this not being a gallery post. Seven years on, are you still happy with Audiolense ? I ask because I am planning on buying it for my speaker projects. Feel free to PM me to avoid further OT posts !Yeah, those were the days when open baffles and controlled dispersion was all the rage 😀
i remember reading through your blog and all the other "open baffle sites" when designing my speakers, and it was real exciting how easy it had become trying out different baffle designs, cardioid vs dipole, etc, due to the emergence of cheap dsp and measurement mics.
i have to admit though, i was never totally happy with the crossovers before moving to a more powerful DSP platform than the minidsp 4x10, and i was often tempted to start anew with something requiring bit less EQ.
i kind of wondered what happened since you stopped building more speakers, so i'm glad to hear that the reason was you being content with your design.
if you haven't yet, you should really try out some advanced TTD dsp yourself though. 😉
the difference compared to regular frequency response XO is pretty mind-boggling.
There's a bunch of norwegian DIY'ers, including myself that just transitioned to Audiolense, and i think we're all pretty happy we took the plunge, even though there was quite a bit of suffering for those of us transitioning from a itunes/mac to a jriver/windows based playback chain
Interesting design, i find that some of the "magic" of an OB disappears when using closed back tweeters. For me it needs to be either a cone full range or two tweeters with one firing towards the back.
I have experimented with this on my OBs, in the end i stuck to the plain full rangers without additional tweeters. Nothing missing in the high end, only thing that annoys me a bit is the narrow dispersion.
Here they are now finished:
One 15" (Redcatt OBW15) wasn't quite enough for the big room so i added a second one, plenty of bass down to 40hz now. The driver plates are mounted on slotted aluminum profiles, this makes it somewhat modular so that i can easily mount different baffles with different drivers in them.
Vibration from the 15s was an issue at higher volumes, they actually excited the cones of the FRs (Soviet 5GDSH4-4) causing nasty distortion. The baffles where mounted on rubber spacers and Alubutyl was placed on the (flimsy) baskets of the FRs to mitigate that.
XO ended up relatively complicated now. Impedance correction at the front followed by 18db filters for the 15s and FRs and an additional passive EQ (don't remember the english term for it, resistor, cap and inductor in parallel) for the Full Rangers to fix a peak at 10khz. Unfortunately i can't find the final measurement anymore, i may not have saved it 🙄
In the end i'm very satisfied with the sound, these really fill the room and i'm always surprised by how effortless the FRs sound, at least as long as you're in the sweetspot on-axis 🙂
Bonus pic with GM70's lit up:
I have experimented with this on my OBs, in the end i stuck to the plain full rangers without additional tweeters. Nothing missing in the high end, only thing that annoys me a bit is the narrow dispersion.
Here they are now finished:
One 15" (Redcatt OBW15) wasn't quite enough for the big room so i added a second one, plenty of bass down to 40hz now. The driver plates are mounted on slotted aluminum profiles, this makes it somewhat modular so that i can easily mount different baffles with different drivers in them.
Vibration from the 15s was an issue at higher volumes, they actually excited the cones of the FRs (Soviet 5GDSH4-4) causing nasty distortion. The baffles where mounted on rubber spacers and Alubutyl was placed on the (flimsy) baskets of the FRs to mitigate that.
XO ended up relatively complicated now. Impedance correction at the front followed by 18db filters for the 15s and FRs and an additional passive EQ (don't remember the english term for it, resistor, cap and inductor in parallel) for the Full Rangers to fix a peak at 10khz. Unfortunately i can't find the final measurement anymore, i may not have saved it 🙄
In the end i'm very satisfied with the sound, these really fill the room and i'm always surprised by how effortless the FRs sound, at least as long as you're in the sweetspot on-axis 🙂
Bonus pic with GM70's lit up:
Is 5GDSH4-4 really so good?
I remember it as real Soviet garbage creating high THD without vibrating case.
I remember it as real Soviet garbage creating high THD without vibrating case.
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Sure it may not be as good as a modern markaudio driver or similar but i still like it for anything apart from bass. I suppose the high THD is mostly in the lower range as it just can't reproduce anything below 150hz at usable spl. Gets better as you add more of them.
Unfortunately very hard to get ahold of these drivers as a westerner. A friend of mine has a contact in Hungary who collected 24 of them for dirt cheap from local sellers and shipped them to germany.
There's some russians on youtube who built baffles with 24 or even 32 of these drivers per side, they can't be that bad if you go through all that effort 😄
Unfortunately very hard to get ahold of these drivers as a westerner. A friend of mine has a contact in Hungary who collected 24 of them for dirt cheap from local sellers and shipped them to germany.
There's some russians on youtube who built baffles with 24 or even 32 of these drivers per side, they can't be that bad if you go through all that effort 😄
I've had new open baffles in my listening room for a few weeks now.
Previously, I built provisionally (open baffle) speakers here a year ago.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240201_200622-jpg.128/
The new baffles and ideas are based on my first project with an open baffle (SaPol dipole from 2012), which I also built myself and presented here in the forum. I still use the 4-5 mm black polypropylene ropes for lacing the midrange and tweeter chassis.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085246-jpg.136/
About a year ago, for fun, I built these three-way open baffle speakers to test, and since I was quite happy with the result, I finally had time two months ago to finish making the final baffle.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085331-jpg.137/
The measurements in the room also confirm good results at 1m and 2.5m at the listening position, as does the acoustic measurement (RT60), also a waterfall. After spending hours with the crossover and carrying out a number of measurements, in the end I liked the 6dB three-way crossover best.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085354-jpg.138/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085306-jpg.139/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085321-jpg.141/
Front with Dipol-N subwoofer or H version
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240424_192857-jpg.129/
Previously, I built provisionally (open baffle) speakers here a year ago.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240201_200622-jpg.128/
The new baffles and ideas are based on my first project with an open baffle (SaPol dipole from 2012), which I also built myself and presented here in the forum. I still use the 4-5 mm black polypropylene ropes for lacing the midrange and tweeter chassis.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085246-jpg.136/
About a year ago, for fun, I built these three-way open baffle speakers to test, and since I was quite happy with the result, I finally had time two months ago to finish making the final baffle.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085331-jpg.137/
The measurements in the room also confirm good results at 1m and 2.5m at the listening position, as does the acoustic measurement (RT60), also a waterfall. After spending hours with the crossover and carrying out a number of measurements, in the end I liked the 6dB three-way crossover best.
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085354-jpg.138/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085306-jpg.139/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240627_085321-jpg.141/
Front with Dipol-N subwoofer or H version
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/media/img_20240424_192857-jpg.129/
It's a shame that my pictures aren't visible above in my answer!
then add the pictures here
Previously, I built provisionally (open baffle) speakers here a year ago.
The new baffles and ideas are based on my first project with an open baffle (SaPol dipole from 2012), which I also built myself and presented here in the forum. I still use the 4-5 mm black polypropylene ropes for lacing the midrange and tweeter chassis.
About a year ago, for fun, I built these three-way open baffle speakers to test, and since I was quite happy with the result, I finally had time two months ago to finish making the final baffle.
here you can clearly see the
polypropylene ropes for the midrange and tweeter chassis being tied.
The measurements in the room also confirm good results at 1m and 2.5m at the listening position, as does the acoustic measurement (RT60), also a waterfall. After spending hours with the crossover and carrying out a number of measurements, in the end I liked the 6dB three-way crossover best.
Front with Dipol-N subwoofer or H version
This is what it looks like in my music listening room, home theater and party room all in one.
Here in the picture with my first open baffle salton SaDipol
then add the pictures here
Previously, I built provisionally (open baffle) speakers here a year ago.
The new baffles and ideas are based on my first project with an open baffle (SaPol dipole from 2012), which I also built myself and presented here in the forum. I still use the 4-5 mm black polypropylene ropes for lacing the midrange and tweeter chassis.
About a year ago, for fun, I built these three-way open baffle speakers to test, and since I was quite happy with the result, I finally had time two months ago to finish making the final baffle.
here you can clearly see the
polypropylene ropes for the midrange and tweeter chassis being tied.
The measurements in the room also confirm good results at 1m and 2.5m at the listening position, as does the acoustic measurement (RT60), also a waterfall. After spending hours with the crossover and carrying out a number of measurements, in the end I liked the 6dB three-way crossover best.
Front with Dipol-N subwoofer or H version
This is what it looks like in my music listening room, home theater and party room all in one.
Here in the picture with my first open baffle salton SaDipol
