Hi @SBA_SLOB_GUY,
Now, I understand that the following is subjective, but I am so pleased with the sound - especially female voices (e.g., the duettino “Sull'aria” that you might recognize form Shawshank Redemption) - that I am drawing an interface between the horn and the AMT for 3D printing that should cure or mitigate the above-mentioned issues.
Kindest regards,
M
Sorry for the belated answer. I did measure the ATM/horn combination, but I saw some irregularities vis-a-vis previous measurements. I believe that they are related to leaks and/or imperfect surface matching, since it was my (and another forum member's), observation that those matter. I am trying to correct that now and will re-measure.
Now, I understand that the following is subjective, but I am so pleased with the sound - especially female voices (e.g., the duettino “Sull'aria” that you might recognize form Shawshank Redemption) - that I am drawing an interface between the horn and the AMT for 3D printing that should cure or mitigate the above-mentioned issues.
Kindest regards,
M
These Overlill Audio "Angels" sounded awesome at a Bristol Audio show about 20 years ago, 2005 I think?
The Acrylic was so clean its hard to see the curved edge on the sides.
The variable curve is a great way to give a "Variable Path Length" (VPL!) which eliminates any cliff edge for back wave cancellation
It also reduces cavity resonance in between the two sides.
The twin SEAS 8 inch drivers covered Fs (28Hz) to 300 Hz and then a stunning Manger driver all the way up to bout 18KHz.
A solid state, Dave Belles Ref power amp on the Seas and a gorgeous sounding (but pot ugly to look at!) Tom Evans class A tube amp on the Manger... Overall one of the most life like and natural systems I've heard... Vocals in particular were just so real... Just as I was about the hit play and it felt like Seal "spoke to me" I actually looked up in embarrassment that I had ignored him!!
The Acrylic was so clean its hard to see the curved edge on the sides.
The variable curve is a great way to give a "Variable Path Length" (VPL!) which eliminates any cliff edge for back wave cancellation
It also reduces cavity resonance in between the two sides.
The twin SEAS 8 inch drivers covered Fs (28Hz) to 300 Hz and then a stunning Manger driver all the way up to bout 18KHz.
A solid state, Dave Belles Ref power amp on the Seas and a gorgeous sounding (but pot ugly to look at!) Tom Evans class A tube amp on the Manger... Overall one of the most life like and natural systems I've heard... Vocals in particular were just so real... Just as I was about the hit play and it felt like Seal "spoke to me" I actually looked up in embarrassment that I had ignored him!!
The variable curve is a great way to give a "Variable Path Length" (VPL!) which eliminates any cliff edge for back wave cancellation
It also reduces cavity resonance in between the two sides.
First statement is false, but it helps a bit yes. Edge simulation can use only flat baffle, but it translates pretty well for U-baffles. I used 14 edge points for curved baffle (not shown). Actually curving is meaningless below 300Hz, but obviously gives better economic proffit...
It also reduces cavity resonance in between the two sides.
First statement is false, but it helps a bit yes. Edge simulation can use only flat baffle, but it translates pretty well for U-baffles. I used 14 edge points for curved baffle (not shown). Actually curving is meaningless below 300Hz, but obviously gives better economic proffit...
Juhazi, you are correct.
I had made times ago VPL U-frame simulations in AKABAK (lot of them) to find some U-frame shape what reduce first dipole peak and first minimum, result was that any shape reduce peaks and minimums nearly zero dB. Shortest path length defines peaks and minimums frequencies and variability has nearly no influence.
I had made times ago VPL U-frame simulations in AKABAK (lot of them) to find some U-frame shape what reduce first dipole peak and first minimum, result was that any shape reduce peaks and minimums nearly zero dB. Shortest path length defines peaks and minimums frequencies and variability has nearly no influence.
Great, I know I am always on the right track when I disagree with you.
So, to be clear, in your opinion, does it or does it not give a VPL (variable path length)?
You state that in your opinion "The first statement is false" then in the same sentence (!) you say "but it helps a bit yes" So which is it?!
It may just be your bad English, but please be accurate and concise for the benefit of others...
Clue- It might help you focus on the truth if you imagine the two curved sides folded forward by 90 degrees to form one large flat baffle... Now ask yourself is it better or worse than straight sides?
Excuse my French Alex, but I can assure you Juhazi's English is as good as yours if not better.
I've been following his input for a long time and can say with certainty I can understand him very well unlike some of the so called "native" speakers.
Could it be because I'm bilingual or could it be because he simply expesses himself very clearly and to the point, every time? I don't know, please enlighten me.
And next time please spare is your nasty remarks, stick to the point without deviating into unnecessary rumblings.
I sincerely hope you'll find the courage to apologize for your unwelcome outburst, honestly this is the 21st century and no one is entitled to such behaviour anymore.
Best regards
Stan
I've been following his input for a long time and can say with certainty I can understand him very well unlike some of the so called "native" speakers.
Could it be because I'm bilingual or could it be because he simply expesses himself very clearly and to the point, every time? I don't know, please enlighten me.
And next time please spare is your nasty remarks, stick to the point without deviating into unnecessary rumblings.
I sincerely hope you'll find the courage to apologize for your unwelcome outburst, honestly this is the 21st century and no one is entitled to such behaviour anymore.
Best regards
Stan
curved edge or straight, you are still going to get a cavity resonance in the Uframe; the only thing that really helps is crossing over to the top below that resonance. in this case, the top driver looks big enough for that to have been done
Again I am happy to disagree with you juhazi.
Fact: It actually increases the production cost! But the significant performance advantages are well worth the extra cost. Also it looks stunning... Compare it to the usual slab sided boxes with no back that most people churn out..
It requires a lot more material and 20mm thick acrylic is expensive, delicate and easily damaged... One scratch renders a piece unusable in commercial production. One has to buy enough material to allow for 60cm deep sides as that was the depth of the cabinet sides at the base... Then the "extra" material has to be CND away to create the variable curve which creates 60cm deep sides at the base, then gradually reduces to a carefully calculated minimum depth, then increases again up to the top plate.
The result is a substantial increase in bass extension with ZERO tunnel effect or any trace of lower midrange colouration... The cabinets were incredibly heavy for such a small design and even at high SPL when I put my hand on the sides (much to the anger of the Overkill Audio guys... I left a finger print!) there was zero vibration.
So the design is very effective but costs more to manufacture.
Re your technical opinion... Here are the facts Vs your "false statements":
In a conventional open baffle the sides usually vary from none at all (flat baffle only) to relatively shallow compared to the baffle width, this is to avoid rear chamber "tunnel effect" (standing waves/resonance between the two sides) which sounds really bad and is unacceptable to even a casual listener. 15 cm to 20 cm deep sides are common, some up to 30 cm deep. So this (a) limits effective baffle width to just the width of the flat baffle, or this dimension plus the total depth of the two sides... Again, imagine the sides folded flat and you have a rectangle.... ie you have a "cliff edge" baffle step plus a cliff edge F3 where bass plummets below the frequency corresponding to the wavelength of the effective baffle width.
So the result of the VPL design is almost a doubling of effective baffle width whilst maintaining a high WAF narrow front baffle width with no downside other than extra cost.
Last edited:
Er... No.
Shame I disagree with your buddy... Chin chin old chap its all about being accurate in a debate.
I have disagreed with him on many points over the years and I always focus in detail on the facts. Being concise and accurate communication is essential.
Your opinion of my English ... Really old chap, you want to go there... Well why dont you correct your mis-spelling of "expesses" ... I believe you tried to say expresses? (plural of express is expresses).... 😉
They used a DEQX and part of the demo was to change the crossover point on the fly... Preset 1 to 4 or something. Low SPL was best around 300 Hz crossover, when they went loud they crossed over at around 600 Hz... It all sound great on axis... Bowed Cello and male vocals were the best I have ever heard at a show regardless of price. Off axis the Manger is really bad... dull with no top end life. Its a great "hot seat" system but not family sofa listening.
The VPL had no audible resonance... I guessed the distance between the sides was around 35cm wide and this corresponds to a wavelength of 980 Hz... The sound was so clean and natural I could not hear any issues at all. I am esp sensitive to 120Hz to 300Hz chesty male vocals, muddy Cello strings and nasal female vocals and left hand piano... The Angels / Manger sounded incredible (on axis) on all these.
Last edited:
Is this your best shot little fella? A spelling mistake?
You obviously didn't grasp my point.
Must be your Cambridge upbringing that gives you this sense of superiority and entitlement to lecture others.
Maybe learn to listen first, and think, before shooting from the hip.
Guten nacht.
Pot kettle and black old chap... You chose the tone... I just pointed out your mistakes... Thts how it goes.
Not even an opening shot never mind a best one, just bouncing it right back at ya... "Double Keys, No return" 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 clue "Lloyd and Christmas"😉
🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 🤣 Really coming from the guy who puts these on line... OMG, adason, what if the children see them?!!🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
and the unforgettable
Last edited:
This does make me think, would a slight "V" shape in addition to the VPL not be even better? It might look a bit weird though?
So the sides taper out by say 5cm at the end of sides? That would eliminate the standing wave / fixed width of the sides.