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I have had a setup with JA8008 and a deltalite 2515 pr. speaker and it works beautifully. The JA8008 is a brilliant midrange driver as it goes pretty low with very little to no audible distortion. I really liked it and has only moved on to other configurations because of curiosity.
I am now on a version with 15" full range Audio Nirvana as extended midrange. Supperted by Ciare 15" for bass. The high sensitivity big drivers delivers a very live feeling to the music and bass is super fast and very to the point.
My next generation of speaker will be a 4-way system with dedicated midrange 10" driver from Precision Devices and a Raidho Tweeter for the highs. Ciare 15" for both low midrange and bass.
I always use the drivers very well within there suggested frequency range. And only use drivers with pretty good effenciency data. I find it easier to get coherence accross the freauency range when there is more than adequate output to work with. I find it better to reduce output than to force a driver to play louder with EQ.
Thank you!!
How do you like the midrange of the Audio Nirvana vs the JA8008? Both used in OB, right?
I didn't know the PD.103NR1 ( I guess that's the Precision Devices driver you referred to). It looks great. Have you heard it?
How high were you xo the Deltalite 2515?
Table Stakes / 4 way OB project
Just broke in this pair of OB speakers, my first project. Sounds much better than anticipated.
Here are some details in case of interest.
1) Face is from joined IPE wood left over from a deck project. Very hard and beautiful wood. Braced in the middle and on all edges with 1-2" x 3/4" IPE strips.
2) Started with 2 x PE GRE-15 drivers. Wasn't impressed with the SQ so replaced one of them with the SB Bianco 15" from Madisound.
3) Tweeter is the obsolete (super cheap) P.Audio BMD-440 device, used very successfully in GR SuperV co-axial. This driver is stable above 2khz, but especially in the 6x8" horn wave guide, very shouty between 1-2khz.. 5-10db peak almost intolerable.
4) Put a PE 50w LPAD on it as well to dampen the BMD-440 (8 ohms @ 106db@1w).
5) After the LPAD, attenuated the with a 640uF axial capacitor from another project. Hat tip to Joseph Crowe.
6) Running a parts-bin 40w (6 ohm) ribbon tweeter (93db@1w) magnetically coupled with the horn, facing up. Danny Richie says you want to put your super-tweeter, facing up on the same plane as the forward firing tweeter.
7) Crossover based on a stock 2.5khz PE unit.
8) Added a 300hz high-pass filter in front of the second woofer (the GRE15) so it provides only bass extension.
9) Running the dual tweeters and dual woofers in parallel, giving speaker a 4 ohm load.
9) Added small wing on one side to deepen the bass.
Listening impressions:
1) Very open and "effortless"... was interesting to experience first-hand.
2) Horn loaded compression tweeter is very strange. It's dry and shouty compared to other tweeters I've used. Quite good with instruments, not so much (subjectively) with voices.
3) Terrific sparkle from the up-firing, ribbon ambiance tweeter
4) Much better after break-in. Those woofers are very thin out of the box.
5) IPE wood is very heavy but yet the baffle rattles at high volumes. No wonder Clayton makes them out of Caesar stone. Boxes add a lot of ballast.
6) Not getting the "thump" that my boxed bass drivers get, but better than my mini-Maggies. Bianco is giving really nice mid-bass and my subs (Rythmik) are filling in the way bottom nicely.
Just broke in this pair of OB speakers, my first project. Sounds much better than anticipated.
Here are some details in case of interest.
1) Face is from joined IPE wood left over from a deck project. Very hard and beautiful wood. Braced in the middle and on all edges with 1-2" x 3/4" IPE strips.
2) Started with 2 x PE GRE-15 drivers. Wasn't impressed with the SQ so replaced one of them with the SB Bianco 15" from Madisound.
3) Tweeter is the obsolete (super cheap) P.Audio BMD-440 device, used very successfully in GR SuperV co-axial. This driver is stable above 2khz, but especially in the 6x8" horn wave guide, very shouty between 1-2khz.. 5-10db peak almost intolerable.
4) Put a PE 50w LPAD on it as well to dampen the BMD-440 (8 ohms @ 106db@1w).
5) After the LPAD, attenuated the with a 640uF axial capacitor from another project. Hat tip to Joseph Crowe.
6) Running a parts-bin 40w (6 ohm) ribbon tweeter (93db@1w) magnetically coupled with the horn, facing up. Danny Richie says you want to put your super-tweeter, facing up on the same plane as the forward firing tweeter.
7) Crossover based on a stock 2.5khz PE unit.
8) Added a 300hz high-pass filter in front of the second woofer (the GRE15) so it provides only bass extension.
9) Running the dual tweeters and dual woofers in parallel, giving speaker a 4 ohm load.
9) Added small wing on one side to deepen the bass.
Listening impressions:
1) Very open and "effortless"... was interesting to experience first-hand.
2) Horn loaded compression tweeter is very strange. It's dry and shouty compared to other tweeters I've used. Quite good with instruments, not so much (subjectively) with voices.
3) Terrific sparkle from the up-firing, ribbon ambiance tweeter
4) Much better after break-in. Those woofers are very thin out of the box.
5) IPE wood is very heavy but yet the baffle rattles at high volumes. No wonder Clayton makes them out of Caesar stone. Boxes add a lot of ballast.
6) Not getting the "thump" that my boxed bass drivers get, but better than my mini-Maggies. Bianco is giving really nice mid-bass and my subs (Rythmik) are filling in the way bottom nicely.
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I disagree.
It's easy to crossover a speaker with calculations and then tune it by listening to the results and adjust the crossover.
It just means the result will not necessarily suit someone else's ideas of what a graph should look like, thereby ensuring your speaker will sound like everyone else's. Kind of negating why the diyer didn't just buy a speaker at a big box stores.
It's easy to crossover a speaker with calculations and then tune it by listening to the results and adjust the crossover.
It just means the result will not necessarily suit someone else's ideas of what a graph should look like, thereby ensuring your speaker will sound like everyone else's. Kind of negating why the diyer didn't just buy a speaker at a big box stores.
If by that you mean your graph won't necessarily be "flat", the further from flat it becomes the more it will have its own signature. A big advantage of DIYing a design through listening AND through measurement is that in many cases we can acheive a more well balanced sound than we can buy.
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I always like the flat measured tuning over hills and valleys, the latter might sound good on some specific recordings, but overall flat to me is best. Flat can be downhill, otherwise it might sound thin. Measurement is key to get the crossover region in place. This to me is impossible, unlees its first order series filter
Cool. Can you show me a speaker that doesn't vary it's response amplitude in various positions in various rooms?
I've been doing this for decades with both active and passive crossovers. It's not difficult. Unlike experts, I don't find speakers to be use specific, as in for home theatre or for music, as an example. It sounds correct, or it does not.
By the way, can anyone answer what the robots mean by telling me my response contains quotes, please trim them appropriately, when I haven't selected any quotes?
I've been doing this for decades with both active and passive crossovers. It's not difficult. Unlike experts, I don't find speakers to be use specific, as in for home theatre or for music, as an example. It sounds correct, or it does not.
By the way, can anyone answer what the robots mean by telling me my response contains quotes, please trim them appropriately, when I haven't selected any quotes?
Why bother? If you want a speaker that sounds like everyone else's, just go buy a pair at a store.
If it's beyond your skill set, and you're not willing to learn how to figure things on your own (to me, the learning is a huge part of diy), then by all means, try using other people's work to assist you.
If it's beyond your skill set, and you're not willing to learn how to figure things on your own (to me, the learning is a huge part of diy), then by all means, try using other people's work to assist you.
It's a fair criticism. Indeed, my measurements did show that the 640uF cap sorts out the tweeter so it rolls off properly at cross-over... but...
1) I've found it difficult to get accurate bass measurements in my listening room. Yes, the idea was to make up for some of the 6db loss but the Bianco is 99db and the GRS 15PR-8 is around 87... so it's naive to think it's going to "keep up."
2) 15" is too large to cross at 2.5khz. It beams at the top of the midrange. Crossing at 1Khz to a different tweeter would be an improvement... but this tweeter won't do that.
Net-net, I think the rational plan here is to call it a day and appreciate the experiment. I've gone back to my AE boxed bass driver + ESS Heil AMT tweeter combo. Wow, it smokes...
Agreed in full.
Acheiving good phase tracking through crossover without measurement would entail considerable trial and error so I guess you're not bothered about that aspect, nor the possibility of lobing off axis vertically. I admire the independence of your approach even though I wouldn't do it myself.
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Yes, 15 inch can’t be crossed high, what I meant is too cross low with first order, and use the high efficiency of the Bianco, and end up around 88-90 dB average for the 40 - 300 hz region. If the crossover is crossing at 300 Hz you will not benefit from the 6 dB roll off. Think of the low crossover point/large coil as a 6 dB slope eq
I'm using the Heil as well, with a Dayton RSS-HF 12" sealed woofer for bass, and an Eminence Beta 8a on a narrow open baffle handling 250 - 1600 Hz. The crossover is active using a MiniDSP 4x10HD. The efficiency of the Beta is high enough that I only need 2 dB or so of attenuation on the Heil, which is nice for the gain structure. Sounds pretty good to me!
Bill
I'm forever asking myself the questions of 'what amplifiers are used and in what sort of environment' with people's descriptions about speaker driver choice, baffles, etc
Technically, it probably doesn't matter that much but it makes sense when describing the combinations of drivers, baffles, etc to add some description of amplifier(s), any awkward' driver properties, any 'extreme' dsp settings, room compensation, etc
It's a real boon for some of us still struggling with system setups and room acoustics
... I don't find speakers to be use specific, as in for home theatre or for music, as an example. It sounds correct, or it does not. (from #3591 above).
Maybe one day I will get nearer to this. Maybe ...
Technically, it probably doesn't matter that much but it makes sense when describing the combinations of drivers, baffles, etc to add some description of amplifier(s), any awkward' driver properties, any 'extreme' dsp settings, room compensation, etc
It's a real boon for some of us still struggling with system setups and room acoustics
... I don't find speakers to be use specific, as in for home theatre or for music, as an example. It sounds correct, or it does not. (from #3591 above).
Maybe one day I will get nearer to this. Maybe ...
So you don't really want equalization... you want an synthetic boost over 300hz. Got it.