PTFE might be an alternative. Can be purchased in sheets from about 0.25mm up. Not tried, but a leather punch would probably go through it to produce a disc. Or, perhaps, a drill stand+plug cutter+a slow-ish drill speed. Acetal too.
I couldn't find Delrin sheet at less than 10mm thick so in my case not possible to use to replace a thrust plate.
We get rods of Delrin, Teflon, and Nylon.
Acrylic, and PP too.
Parting tool on a lathe will get the required thickness.
Actually, if you can, use UHMW-HDPE.
Excellent properties, I have seen the gears used in plastic shredders made from it: low noise, good life, excellent impact resistance.
Acrylic, and PP too.
Parting tool on a lathe will get the required thickness.
Actually, if you can, use UHMW-HDPE.
Excellent properties, I have seen the gears used in plastic shredders made from it: low noise, good life, excellent impact resistance.
Ever seen warped LPs played?
The tone arm pivots take up much of the run out, so the rumble, if transmitted, is the only problem of note.
The tone arm pivots take up much of the run out, so the rumble, if transmitted, is the only problem of note.
Yes, it's certainly out of my price range - and i never owned a record collection that would make a turntable like that worthwhile But I was fortunate enough to have access to one and I learned, by listening and using, just how good it is. It's significantly audibly better than any other TT I've used.
Yes that would work with an inverted bearing in fact it would be neccesary as oil would just drain out. Wheel bearing grease has the same extreme pressure additives as the oil.
I find very hard to draw a conclusion about some specific audio equipment when a full setup containing a very expensive part is compared with another setup made of much cheaper products because usually you pair one expensive product with another expensive product and the chance to get a greater quality from the whole expensive setup is increased not to mention the expectations which are vastly increased too and i fail a lot to be unbiased when judging expensive equipments by sound.
I'd normally expect that the Platine Verdier turntable had an expensive tonearm with an expensive cartridge plugged into an expensive phono preamp followed by an expensive amplifier and some expensive speakers. It would be quite difficult to screw it that way...
I'd normally expect that the Platine Verdier turntable had an expensive tonearm with an expensive cartridge plugged into an expensive phono preamp followed by an expensive amplifier and some expensive speakers. It would be quite difficult to screw it that way...
Well yes, the systems on which I heard the Verdier were world class, very large systems. Usually the cart was just the good old SPU, but I have heard more exotic cartridges. The large high quality systems allowed for easy comparisons between turntables. For me and others listening, the Verdier simply got out of the way of the music. On large orchestral recordings the Verdier was king. I can't swear that it was better than any other good TT on rock or pop recordings because I rarely listened to on the Verdier - orchestral being such a treat that I took advantage of that. I do remember some bluegrass and one of my Firesign Theater LPs - both of which were astonishing. 😀
@PRR, what does Kingsbury have to do with turntable bearings? They are specialist in large turbine bearings and such. They require specialized clean filtered high pressure oil to function properly.
They are a local company, right across the river from me in Philadelphia. A friend of mine was the shop foreman for a short period of time.
BillWojo
They are a local company, right across the river from me in Philadelphia. A friend of mine was the shop foreman for a short period of time.
BillWojo
Hydrostatic keeps coming up in this thread. Not everybody worked there and knows this stuff. I didn't think a one-link post would offend anybody. Sorry.
This whole thread has been a delightful read; a few excellent points, and some decent restraint.
I thought of a youtube interview someone had done with the schiit audio dudes about their turntable, Sol (jury still out there?). in Research and Development for that turntable they were having some issues with the grease staying in the hole for the bearing: they settled on some rocket NASA grease I think. I couldn't find the interview again to post.
I thought of a youtube interview someone had done with the schiit audio dudes about their turntable, Sol (jury still out there?). in Research and Development for that turntable they were having some issues with the grease staying in the hole for the bearing: they settled on some rocket NASA grease I think. I couldn't find the interview again to post.
Civil aircraft jet engines used to have HSS (High Speed Steel) bearings, that was the only useful material at 30,000 rpm.
Obviously, very high quality of lubricating oil with frequent inspections is the usual practice.
Normally, cutting tools like drill bits are made from it.
Like I said earlier, front axle (CVJ) grease is quite good enough for a turn table, easily obtained from standard suppliers, no BS claims, and reasonably priced.
Usually good to 140 degrees C, and gear lube pressure grade.
Obviously, very high quality of lubricating oil with frequent inspections is the usual practice.
Normally, cutting tools like drill bits are made from it.
Like I said earlier, front axle (CVJ) grease is quite good enough for a turn table, easily obtained from standard suppliers, no BS claims, and reasonably priced.
Usually good to 140 degrees C, and gear lube pressure grade.
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Creating a correct Lubrication within a bearing environment is a science, especially when it is necessary to identify a viscosity for a lubricant that is able to maintain a Hydrodynamic condition at the Bearing Parts interface locations.
The Following Formula is an equation that can be used for certain environments, there will be an equation that is designed for the Plane Bearing Design, that is found in most TT's Platter Spindle Bearing Housings.
I don't do the math, that is best left to the more learned types.
What I do know is that if the Bearing Parts are working optimised, the conditions within the Bearing Housing will most likely be one, that protects the stylus from receiving an unwanted energy transfer from within the housing.
In relation to an earlier reference to NASA, this institution is also responsible for producing a lubricant, that has the lowest measured Co-Efficient of Friction. I think that substance or a variant is a commercial product now.
(1)
The Following Formula is an equation that can be used for certain environments, there will be an equation that is designed for the Plane Bearing Design, that is found in most TT's Platter Spindle Bearing Housings.
I don't do the math, that is best left to the more learned types.
What I do know is that if the Bearing Parts are working optimised, the conditions within the Bearing Housing will most likely be one, that protects the stylus from receiving an unwanted energy transfer from within the housing.
In relation to an earlier reference to NASA, this institution is also responsible for producing a lubricant, that has the lowest measured Co-Efficient of Friction. I think that substance or a variant is a commercial product now.
(1)
You seem to be a Polytechnic Lecturer, full of theory.
In practice nobody reputable will make a batch of less than 10,000 liters of a specific lubricant.
Taking 10 cc per unit, work out how many turntables can be lubed with this quantity.
Be practical, and use whatever is readily available, made by reputable companies in huge quantities.
In practice nobody reputable will make a batch of less than 10,000 liters of a specific lubricant.
Taking 10 cc per unit, work out how many turntables can be lubed with this quantity.
Be practical, and use whatever is readily available, made by reputable companies in huge quantities.
"I don't do the math, that is best left to the more learned types"
So certainly not a academic, I do have a decent period of time behind me investigating this subject.
The theory side was put to bed a long time ago, I discovered many accounts of practical work being carried out a long time ago, these are offered by engineers with an interest in TT's and hobbyists with a confidence to take on a servicing and upgrade work.
More importantly the work undertaken is usually not difficult, even though it does require a mechanical thought process to plan for the procedures.
There are numerous places that can be visited on the Web, where a rethink of the methods used for the TT Plane Bearing assembly and methods used for improving Structural Rigidness for mounting the Bearing Housing has yielded much improved interfaces within the housing and lessened the transfer of mechanical energies being produced.
A bearing housing is typically attached to a very thin gauge material that is the chassis, this material usually spans across a void and is only supported at the outer edges of the pressed/cast material.
A bearing housing assembly is usually found with its base positioned approx' 100mm (as an average) below the the top of the chassis.
The unsupported chassis plate local to the Bearing Housing and the impact of the drive system on the Platter, or the rotation of the Platter alone, will create a flexion to the chassis and this will be amplified by the base of the bearing housing as it takes on a type pendulum type of role.
The outcome being eccentric rotations and fluctuations in the speed.
Plinth designs for certain vintage TT's have been produced to support the entirety of the chassis and encapsulate the bearing housing into the form of the Plinth.
Lesser designs, but quite effective have produced a clamp bracket that is attached to the base of the bearing housing, that allows the base of the Bearing Housing to have a rod attached to the housing and also to a Heavy Base that serves as an Anchor Point.
The anchoring method is a design to reduce flexion, a modified version of this also has been reported as being successful as a method to drain energy from within the bearing housing and lessen the transfer of energy toward the stylus.
I have been encouraging work around these alternate practices to be carried out for quite some time, and have never been informed the practice adopted, when undertaken has been a waste of time.
There are also a selection of 'off shoot businesses', where individuals have cherry picked some of the most beneficial methods to be incorporated to a design, and a range of products are now available for certain vintage TT's that are recognised as valuable parts to be used as a exchange within a bearing housing, or a complete bearing housing exchange, and this is mainly down to the choices for the used materials.
Taking a look into these alternative methods and considering them for use, especially on a bearing design used on a TT that is from the vintage era,
is able to produce a substantial improvement for the critical interfaces, hence, the Stylus has been subjected to much improved interface within the LP Groove.
The unwanted energy produced from metal/metal contact within the bearing housing, which will be a transferred energy toward the stylus, will as a result of making some simple changes to the materials, improve on this condition.
It has already been discussed with the different suggestions for materials to replace the Sacrificial Part, Steel Ball Bearing, some of the suggestions are commonly discovered, as the part being suggested to be used has a low co-efficient of friction.
A furthering of this practice is seen where the Sacrificial Part, Thrust Pad Material is also exchanged to a part that has a low co-efficient of friction.
Tonearms and Cartridges used on a vintage TT, can be seen to have cost quite considerable amounts on monies.
Individuals take quite a lot of care in their selection of these devices and are selective to attain the best from the marriage of the parts.
If the tone arm and Cartridge is a lesser value or increased value, there is one more interface on a TT, that the Tonearm and Cartridge is dependant on to work at their optimised
The optimisation of the interfaces within the bearing the housing and how this is assembled and mounted, will be the governing force on the impact on the Tonearm mounting and the contact of the Stylus on the LP.
Producing a condition that allows for a optimal performance, will be critical to enable the whole of the interfaces found on the TT to work for the better.
So certainly not a academic, I do have a decent period of time behind me investigating this subject.
The theory side was put to bed a long time ago, I discovered many accounts of practical work being carried out a long time ago, these are offered by engineers with an interest in TT's and hobbyists with a confidence to take on a servicing and upgrade work.
More importantly the work undertaken is usually not difficult, even though it does require a mechanical thought process to plan for the procedures.
There are numerous places that can be visited on the Web, where a rethink of the methods used for the TT Plane Bearing assembly and methods used for improving Structural Rigidness for mounting the Bearing Housing has yielded much improved interfaces within the housing and lessened the transfer of mechanical energies being produced.
A bearing housing is typically attached to a very thin gauge material that is the chassis, this material usually spans across a void and is only supported at the outer edges of the pressed/cast material.
A bearing housing assembly is usually found with its base positioned approx' 100mm (as an average) below the the top of the chassis.
The unsupported chassis plate local to the Bearing Housing and the impact of the drive system on the Platter, or the rotation of the Platter alone, will create a flexion to the chassis and this will be amplified by the base of the bearing housing as it takes on a type pendulum type of role.
The outcome being eccentric rotations and fluctuations in the speed.
Plinth designs for certain vintage TT's have been produced to support the entirety of the chassis and encapsulate the bearing housing into the form of the Plinth.
Lesser designs, but quite effective have produced a clamp bracket that is attached to the base of the bearing housing, that allows the base of the Bearing Housing to have a rod attached to the housing and also to a Heavy Base that serves as an Anchor Point.
The anchoring method is a design to reduce flexion, a modified version of this also has been reported as being successful as a method to drain energy from within the bearing housing and lessen the transfer of energy toward the stylus.
I have been encouraging work around these alternate practices to be carried out for quite some time, and have never been informed the practice adopted, when undertaken has been a waste of time.
There are also a selection of 'off shoot businesses', where individuals have cherry picked some of the most beneficial methods to be incorporated to a design, and a range of products are now available for certain vintage TT's that are recognised as valuable parts to be used as a exchange within a bearing housing, or a complete bearing housing exchange, and this is mainly down to the choices for the used materials.
Taking a look into these alternative methods and considering them for use, especially on a bearing design used on a TT that is from the vintage era,
is able to produce a substantial improvement for the critical interfaces, hence, the Stylus has been subjected to much improved interface within the LP Groove.
The unwanted energy produced from metal/metal contact within the bearing housing, which will be a transferred energy toward the stylus, will as a result of making some simple changes to the materials, improve on this condition.
It has already been discussed with the different suggestions for materials to replace the Sacrificial Part, Steel Ball Bearing, some of the suggestions are commonly discovered, as the part being suggested to be used has a low co-efficient of friction.
A furthering of this practice is seen where the Sacrificial Part, Thrust Pad Material is also exchanged to a part that has a low co-efficient of friction.
Tonearms and Cartridges used on a vintage TT, can be seen to have cost quite considerable amounts on monies.
Individuals take quite a lot of care in their selection of these devices and are selective to attain the best from the marriage of the parts.
If the tone arm and Cartridge is a lesser value or increased value, there is one more interface on a TT, that the Tonearm and Cartridge is dependant on to work at their optimised
The optimisation of the interfaces within the bearing the housing and how this is assembled and mounted, will be the governing force on the impact on the Tonearm mounting and the contact of the Stylus on the LP.
Producing a condition that allows for a optimal performance, will be critical to enable the whole of the interfaces found on the TT to work for the better.
If a person is not interested in the methods employed for a Plane Bearing assembly with the thought process being for the use of modern materials that are readily available, for me that is all fine and dandy.
If a person is not interested in learning how to ensure a lubrication added to the assembly of parts is maintaining the function it was used for, for me that is all fine and dandy.
'No Beef presented toward these approaches from my end'.
There are others who read forums and the idea of working with a bearing assembly, for some readers will be of interest, others might be looking in as part of developing their curiosity for the subject.
Information being available that is useful to these individuals, and help them along with their interest is no harm at all.
This thread is born from a similar interest, an at Post 3 the wheels are in motion to suggest alternate materials used to the original parts.
If a person is not interested in learning how to ensure a lubrication added to the assembly of parts is maintaining the function it was used for, for me that is all fine and dandy.
'No Beef presented toward these approaches from my end'.
There are others who read forums and the idea of working with a bearing assembly, for some readers will be of interest, others might be looking in as part of developing their curiosity for the subject.
Information being available that is useful to these individuals, and help them along with their interest is no harm at all.
This thread is born from a similar interest, an at Post 3 the wheels are in motion to suggest alternate materials used to the original parts.